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For the same reason that many inthis country actaully beleieve that there was a flaw in the german character that caused them to kill moilions of jews and follow Hitler.But histroy has shown that people do these things for the same reason so mnay committt crimes althought know it is wrong.Police always look for it;its called motive and are based on human flaws.Greed is a human flaw that accounts for everything from many petty thefts to murder.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miranda Sebastian
Watching CNN tonight, there was a debate about the State of Virginia celebrating Confederate Pride Month in April, leaving OUT the SLAVERY part of the American Negro History.
Some people find it contentious, disingenous, and an abomination.
What is your opinion on the above matter, and do you think the State of Virginia is correct in leaving out such an important factor of American History, which will, no doubt, be a role model for other states to follow? Thank you,
As a black native and resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia (soon-to-be a former resident), this celebration should have never happened in the first place. It's backwards and threatens to bring all the progression we've made business-wise to a halt.
Virginia didn't get brought into the war, because of slavery.
Virginia was brought in, when Lincoln ordered Virginia to gather troops, to invade North Carolina. They declined, saying they didn't want to fight their brothers. Doing this, they sided with the confederates, and left the Union.
That said, slavery was a very important part of the civil war, but the seeds went back many years earlier. The country was split along cultural and political lines. States rights was a very real issue in the day, and its becoming one today.
Always remember, before the civil war, we were referred to as "These United States of America"
That was changed after the war to "The". Very different world in 1860.
There was no "treason" involved in Virginia joining the Confederacy. It was constitutionally legal and even ole Abe agreed. Read a little history and you just might learn something.
Read the Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government by Jefferson Davis and you will find the flawed constitutional arguement for secession. Nonetheless, the goals of the south, to preserve an economic system based on slavery is abhorrant and I fail to understand why others defend honoring those who brought destruction and death to their own states. The actions of the Governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia are a throwback to Jim Crow laws and the days of worshipping the "lost cause." Lee, Jackson, Stuart, Davis, Benjamin were not good leaders, they were a disaster for the south.
How a nation defines itself can be seen on its currency, bonds and stamps. Confederate currency, bonds and stamps were filled with images of slaves; it defined their way of life - their culture, religion and economy. Take it away and there would have been no need for the war.
Last edited by newhandle; 04-12-2010 at 08:26 AM..
Read the Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government by Jefferson Davis and you will find the flawed constitutional arguement for secession. Nonetheless, the goals of the south, to preserve an economic system based on slavery is abhorrant and I fail to understand why others defend honoring those who brought destruction and death to their own states. The actions of the Governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia are a throwback to Jim Crow laws and the days of worshipping the "lost cause." Lee, Jackson, Stuart, Davis, Benjamin were not good leaders, they were a disaster for the south.
How a nation defines itself can be seen on its currency, bonds and stamps. Confederate currency, bonds and stamps were filled with images of slaves; it defined their way of life - their culture, religion and economy. Take it away and there would have been no need for the war.
Now, how exactly was the constitutional arguement for secession flawed? The U.S. Constitution doesn't even MENTION secession. The fact that it wasn't mentioned and therefore not legal or illegal, made the southern secession justified. When it comes to Confederate money, the only bill that has the image of slaves (and John C. Calhoun on it) was the Confederate $100 bill. If anything, those southern boys were defending and fighting on the behalf of their states, it was Indianans, New Yorkers, Pennsylvanians that brought death and destruction to those states, with the Confederates fighting in defense in places like Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee, and Virginia.
Lee, Jackson, and Forrest were some of the best leaders in the war, the only disaster for the south was Davis' decisions. I'm not one to call myself a "Lost Causer", but I don't deny slavery's part in the whole war. Slavery, back then in America you have to take with the context of the times, think as if you were a regular person of the year 1861, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary one bit.
I saw this discussed on CNN last night, they had a SCV and UDC members on there, and they just kept buzzing them on things like "do you believe we should have slavery today?" and they promptly answer "no", they even referred to slavery in our times as disgusting, and I agree. They even had an author who commented on it, while acknowleging that slavery was one cause, he pigeonholed the entire issue as THE cause of the war, especially saying EVERY southern state said slavery was their reason for secession and only reason. He apparently didn't read his history because I found that only 6 seceding states mention slavery, and a few of them mention secondary issues, like Texas saying the government isn't helping out with handling the Comanches, Georgia, mentioning tariffs, and also mentioning that Washington is playing favorites with the Northern states.
He, like many people were flawed in the logic that you have to judge these things on the context of the times they were in. So, yes, the Governor of Virginia shot himself in the foot not mentioning slavery, but Confederate History Month as a whole, is not even a problem with me. The Confederates States of America was not treasonous, they were NOT Nazis, they didn't exterminate anyone, and their country and the war that proceeded was not just because of slavery, slavery was the issue that added that final gallon of gas to a burning fire. For those not supporting it, it is not like those of you in Virginia are being forced to celebrate this with a gun to your head, but The Confederate States of America is a very important part of Virginia's history, and has every right to be celebrated in the old Confederate States, if you don't celebrate it, no skin off my teeth, just don't make it your own little crusade and self proclaimed righteous holy war against those who don't agree with you.
All the same goes for the Confederate flag, it's objective in it's meaning, and some people just have this cultural implication that the south is inferior and should be kept down because "they're a bunch of dumb, inbred hilbillies", well you know what, The South is special, it's Confederate history is special, nobody is going to re-enslave any black folks, it's only for the sole purpose of remembrance.
There was no "treason" involved in Virginia joining the Confederacy. It was constitutionally legal and even ole Abe agreed. Read a little history and you just might learn something.
Glad someone pointed this out.
If the founding document, the Declaration of Independence were followed, the South had a precedent for succeeding, same as the U.S. as a whole parted ways with England.
Of course in both case it took guns to make it stand. Revolution - U.S. won. Civil War - Federal Gov't won. That simple.
Why is it so important to push "negro" into everything? Does everything have to be africanized? Why?
Strikes me as fashionable objection.
I'll be the first to say slavery was wrong and needed to end (heck it just ended in Africa itself in 2007 legally), but on the other hand, being able to dissolve ties one does not explicity agree too, seems a valuable right as well. (So you can see on that principle why I condemn slavery, despite not being a negro-phile or whatever.)
I'll go a step further, not only was slavery wrong, but it quite possibly has sewn one of the seeds of the eventual decline and fall of the U.S.
Someone mentioned that hallowed places like Mount Vernon and Monticello would have to be closed down because slavery was part of those estates. [If we "disallowed" Confederate pride]
It made me reconsider for a moment...
But no, I am against celebrating the Confederacy because we fought a war to get rid of it. Southern pride can be acknowledged in other ways besides paying tribute to a symbol synonymous with slavery and succession. Bavaria doesn't need to fly the Nazi flag to celebrate its rich past.
Gov McDonnell was not my choice, he's clearly playing party politics and as is the case with Conservatives today, he doesn't know where to draw the line.
As a black native and resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia (soon-to-be a former resident), this celebration should have never happened in the first place. It's backwards and threatens to bring all the progression we've made business-wise to a halt.
While I think it wrong to call any of it a "celebration", should we ignore history and pretend it didn't happen just to avoid offending you?
But no, I am against celebrating the Confederacy because we fought a war to get rid of it. Southern pride can be acknowledged in other ways besides paying tribute to a symbol synonymous with slavery and succession. Bavaria doesn't need to fly the Nazi flag to celebrate its rich past.
True, but how can anyone talk about the past of the American South without getting into the Confederacy as well as slavery?
Both were significant events in the history of the region. To ignore the facts because someone might get offended is silly.
The Civil War was arguably the most defining and important event in the history of the country. BOTH sides should honor those that fought in it, even those that fought for what might have been the wrong reasons.
By the way, flying a Nazi flag in Bavaria will get you arrested and jailed. But this isn't Germany. In America, we have the First Amendment.
That being said, I would not have ignored slavery, would not have characterized it as a celebration, and not used the word "pride."
But acting like the Civil War didn't happen and isn't still an important event to remember and study in this part of the country is just ludicrous.
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