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which reminds me: you STILL haven't, as the OP, posted an actual debate question, as required by the GD forum rules. you posted a challenge to a debate (filled w/ silly rules) and a general topic. again, come on here and post YOUR actual view and let anyone/everyone actually debate it instead of hiding behind rules that can't be enforced and being scared of those who, in your own words, are dissenters. if you're confused, take a look at some of the other successful threads on this forum and see how to actual form a debate thread. this thread has failed, not just b/c of your attitude and obvious bias, but b/c it never had a real question to debate
oh please. I'm just calling them as I see them. don't spew racist rhetoric than cry when you get called a racist. you seem to think that blacks are incapable of being racist, which is frankly BS. you're a prime example such BS. some whites are racist, some blacks are racists. no race is immune to having racist members among them. get that through your head and you'll likely be far happier in your life (maybe)
what, you think that, as a black person, I have to somehow agree w/ you? do you have some kind of "us against them" mentality? please. I have NO worries about what you think of me, my rep points speak loudly for themselves (no fewer than 4 people repped me for my comments on that thread). YOU are the one that seems to be having trouble legitimizing your position, both on this thread and the community at large.
again, go cry and spew your racist comments somewhere else. you're a prime example of one of the many things wrong in the black community. as i said in the last thread this came up, YES, slavery has made a major impact on the black community, yet there's only so much, in 2010, that can be blamed on slavery. slavery has been abolished for over a century. Jim Crow has been abolished for over 40 years. yes, racism exist but white people can no longer be blamed for holding black people down. we know have a problem of some blacks themselves holding themselves back, blacks that continue in a near never-ending cycle of poverty. I've been long sick of the "woe is me" victim mentality of some blacks, the type of blacks that will cry racism at any point. don't cry and say you can't succeed in the "white man's world" when it's very easy to find blacks who have done so. don't cry and say blacks have it harder when many blacks have overcame adversity. I don't hear Haitians and Jamaicans and blacks from outside the US still whining about this despite having been affected by the same slave trade as blacks in America. why is it that blacks from other country can come here and mostly succeed while blacks born here have trouble doing so? how long are you going to keep blaming the near 60% high school drop out rates for black males on slavery? how long are you going to attribute the high crime rates in many black majority communities on slavery? how long are you going to play victim and blame all the woes of the black community on slavery? move on already, most blacks have. you're stuck on your anti-white biased attitude and will never seem to see beyond that.
racism exist, yes, no one is disputing that. slavery made an impact on blacks, yes, no one is disputing that. but it's not the primary source of the issues w/in the black community and until you see that, don't waste time on this forum pretending to know how to solve these issues when you've said nothing here to show this, other than "blame whitey"
again, you're the one having issue validating yourself. I've been a long standing member of this community for years, have over 1K rep points to prove I've gain some respect here. you ranting about me and twisting my words means nada when you've been barely able to elevate your standing above that of the common CDF troll. so keep ranting and throwing out your nonsense. so far, this thread has been going like fabulously
oh please. I'm just calling them as I see them. don't spew racist rhetoric than cry when you get called a racist. you seem to think that blacks are incapable of being racist, which is frankly BS. you're a prime example such BS. some whites are racist, some blacks are racists. no race is immune to having racist members among them. get that through your head and you'll likely be far happier in your life (maybe)
what, you think that, as a black person, I have to somehow agree w/ you? do you have some kind of "us against them" mentality? please. I have NO worries about what you think of me, my rep points speak loudly for themselves (no fewer than 4 people repped me for my comments on that thread). YOU are the one that seems to be having trouble legitimizing your position, both on this thread and the community at large. you've gone up 2 points since posting this thread. me thinks you're having trouble getting people to agree w/ you, can't imagine why it's not too uncommon for people who start decent threads to get repped a lot, especially if the thread grows in success.
again, go cry and spew your racist comments somewhere else. you're a prime example of one of the many things wrong in the black community. as i said in the last thread this came up, YES, slavery has made a major impact on the black community, yet there's only so much, in 2010, that can be blamed on slavery. slavery has been abolished for over a century. Jim Crow has been abolished for over 40 years. yes, racism exist but white people can no longer be blamed for holding black people down. we now have a problem of some blacks themselves holding themselves back, blacks that continue in a near never-ending cycle of poverty. I've been long sick of the "woe is me" victim mentality of some blacks, the type of blacks that will cry racism at any point. don't cry and say you can't succeed in the "white man's world" when it's very easy to find blacks who have done so. don't cry and say blacks have it harder when many blacks have overcame adversity. I don't hear Haitians and Jamaicans and blacks from outside the US still whining about this despite having been affected by the same slave trade as blacks in America. why is it that blacks from other country can come here (many w/o knowing a work of English) and mostly succeed while blacks born here have trouble doing so? how long are you going to keep blaming the near 60% high school drop out rates for black males on slavery? how long are you going to attribute the high crime rates in many black majority communities on slavery? how long are you going to play victim and blame all the woes of the black community on slavery? move on already, most blacks have. you're stuck on your anti-white biased attitude and will never seem to see beyond that.
racism exist, yes, no one is disputing that. slavery made an impact on blacks, yes, no one is disputing that. but it's not the primary source of the issues w/in the black community and until you see that, don't waste time on this forum pretending to know how to solve these issues when you've said nothing here to show this, other than "blame whitey"
again, you're the one having issue validating yourself. I've been a long standing member of this community for years, have over 1K rep points to prove I've gain some respect here. you ranting about me and twisting my words means nada when you've been barely able to elevate your standing above that of the common CDF troll. so keep ranting and throwing out your nonsense. so far, this thread has been going fabulously
I can accept that you call things as you see them but your Stevie Wonder like vision makes what you see not very credible. As far as rep points are concerned I would expect that I would get about as many rep points as Nancy Pelosi would at an RNC Convention…..lol. Seriously though, who in their right mind would expect rep points, given my argument, on a forum dominated by whites…..lol? To tell you the truth, I think I am doing good not being banned or having the post closed. That is what usually happens on most forums…..lol. So the fact that I received ANY rep points is a miracle to me…lol.
I don’t expect you to have an us-against-them mentality…..just to be principled. I never asked you to take my side. I just noted that you gave a total pass to anyone who was saying negative things about black people, as did most white people. The focus of condemnation was me….and not those who were rationalizing racism against black people or disparaging black people. Obviously that is a crowd that you are comfortable with, given that the phenomenon of self hating Negroes is not new. That is why we kill each other like we do and that is why you attacked me.
Yep…I am one of the prime things wrong with our community. I am married. I am a faithful husband. All my children are in advanced and “gifted” classes as their majority white school. I am a college graduate. I go to work everyday. I mentor. I help other people out regularly. I am a tax payer. Yet….because I connect the dots that draws the picture that reveals an ugly truth that America does not want to accept or deal with…….I epitomize what’s wrong with the black community. Okey Dokey! Further exmple of your keen eye sight....no doubt.....lol
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 04-27-2010 at 08:19 AM..
I can accept that you call things as you see them but your Stevie Wonder like vision makes what you see not very credible. As far as rep points are concerned I would expect that I would get about as many rep points as Nancy Pelosi would at an RNC Convention…..lol. Seriously though, who in their right mind would expect rep points, given my argument, on a forum dominated by whites…..lol? To tell you the truth, I think I am doing good not being banned or having the post closed. That is what usually happens on most forums…..lol. So the fact that I received ANY rep points is a miracle to me…lol.
I don’t expect you to have an us-against-them mentality…..just to be principled. I never asked you to take my side. I just noted that you gave a total pass to anyone who was saying negative things about black people, as did most white people. The focus of condemnation was me….and not those who were rationalizing racism against black people or disparaging black people. Obviously that is a crowd that you are comfortable with, given that the phenomenon of self hating Negroes is not new. That is why we kill each other like we do and that is why you attacked me.
Yep…I am one of the prime things wrong with our community. I am married. I am a faithful husband. All my children are in advanced and “gifted” classes as their majority white school. I am a college graduate. I go to work everyday. I mentor. I help other people out regularly. I am a tax payer. Yet….because I connect the dots that draws the picture that reveals an ugly truth that America does not want to accept or deal with…….I epitomize what’s wrong with the black community. Okey Dokey!
The bold text is an example of your prejudice, the same one i sensed in your replies to me.
You think I or we don't want to discuss the topic in fear of being exposed, I'm going to go ahead and assume you mean as racists.
The fact that you're so prejudice and set in your mind that you'd come to this conclusion, I'm guessing, without reading any of my posts, instead of believing what's being said to you speaks more of your prejudice against me, as a white man, as it does mine towards you.
Want to know what's wrong with your country? Take a good look at your post and you'll have 1/3rd of the answer.
I agree with a lot of what Eevee said, at the same time I do believe she's underestimating the impact that prejudice and racism existing in your country today, I do however think it's a mutual thing, not a solely "white" problem.
If blacks have a prejudice (not all obv, generalizing here) against white people, white have a prejudice against blacks and blacks have a prejudice against blacks. Who lose?
Though we could argue the semantics of what got you to the position you are in, in the American society today, it would be a far more fruitful debate to find out how to fix it. What is needed to better the situation and change a bad trend?
And as Eevee pointed out, you've yet to actually post your "thesis", you've simply asked someone to blindly post their counter thesis for you to pick apart. If you're confident you are right, put it out there for everyone to see, and debate the people who seems genuinely interested in a proper debate, then repost whoever comes with racist sentiments as it's against site policy.
My claim is that that the socioeconomic inequality that exists today, between blacks and whites, is the product of past and present racism. That is the argument that I will be defending.
I'll be very curious to see how many people jump up to take the opposing position. Despite your calm, rational statement, you're asking for a screaming match (and I think you realize that perfectly well).
I'll be very curious to see how many people jump up to take the opposing position. Despite your calm, rational statement, you're asking for a screaming match (and I think you realize that perfectly well).
In all honesty, people have already taken up this debate in other topics. They have already been arguing the opposing point of view. When I debated them in other topics, they opted out based upon some claims of my insulting them or obfuscated and misdirected the debate so not to have to deal with their weak intellectual position and face the ramification of what a weak intellectual position implies about their motivations or mindset. So I started a new topic which would be a “Fresh Start”, purely one based upon logic and not emotions and ad hominem and cascading logical fallacies. I really did not expect many takers, if any, so in essence it was a rhetorical challenge. The fact that people did not take the challenge, when they have essentially been arguing the opposing view in other debates, means that they are not confident in their position. People salivate at the opportunity to tear apart a weak argument or to enlighten others. Look at the pattern of other debates. People don’t run from weak position…..only strong ones. But when you run….you have to do it in a way to save face….hence…ad hominem and excuses.
The bold text is an example of your prejudice, the same one i sensed in your replies to me.
You think I or we don't want to discuss the topic in fear of being exposed, I'm going to go ahead and assume you mean as racists.
The fact that you're so prejudice and set in your mind that you'd come to this conclusion, I'm guessing, without reading any of my posts, instead of believing what's being said to you speaks more of your prejudice against me, as a white man, as it does mine towards you.
Want to know what's wrong with your country? Take a good look at your post and you'll have 1/3rd of the answer.
I agree with a lot of what Eevee said, at the same time I do believe she's underestimating the impact that prejudice and racism existing in your country today, I do however think it's a mutual thing, not a solely "white" problem.
If blacks have a prejudice (not all obv, generalizing here) against white people, white have a prejudice against blacks and blacks have a prejudice against blacks. Who lose?
Though we could argue the semantics of what got you to the position you are in, in the American society today, it would be a far more fruitful debate to find out how to fix it. What is needed to better the situation and change a bad trend?
And as Eevee pointed out, you've yet to actually post your "thesis", you've simply asked someone to blindly post their counter thesis for you to pick apart. If you're confident you are right, put it out there for everyone to see, and debate the people who seems genuinely interested in a proper debate, then repost whoever comes with racist sentiments as it's against site policy.
trying not to underestimate it, hope it doesn't come off that way. there are still people alive that lived under Jim Crow. it's too soon for the stigma of that to really go away. the stigma of slavery hasn't really gone away. and never mind the fact that racism, despite the BS idea we're in a "post racial world" is alive and well. but again, white racism isn't the source of all the ills of the black community. why is it so hard for blacks to admit that we are part of the problem? enough with placing all the blame whites. you can't forget the past and no one, including me, is suggesting that, but lord knows you can move on. you, IS, seem incapable of moving on. the overall topic of the state of the black community and how it gotten to where it is is a VALID topic idea, but the way you posed your thesis (so obviously biased), your lack of direction here as the OP, and your also obvious biased racist attitude towards whites, it will be impossible to debate such a topic in this thread
and may I reiterate (in bold no less), you have YET to write your actual debate question that as the OP of this thread, you should have done from the word "go". so about you stop ranting about me and actually run your thread and say what you have to say so people can debate it.
I can accept that you call things as you see them but your Stevie Wonder like vision makes what you see not very credible. As far as rep points are concerned I would expect that I would get about as many rep points as Nancy Pelosi would at an RNC Convention…..lol. Seriously though, who in their right mind would expect rep points, given my argument, on a forum dominated by whites…..lol? To tell you the truth, I think I am doing good not being banned or having the post closed. That is what usually happens on most forums…..lol. So the fact that I received ANY rep points is a miracle to me…lol.
I don’t expect you to have an us-against-them mentality…..just to be principled. I never asked you to take my side. I just noted that you gave a total pass to anyone who was saying negative things about black people, as did most white people. The focus of condemnation was me….and not those who were rationalizing racism against black people or disparaging black people. Obviously that is a crowd that you are comfortable with, given that the phenomenon of self hating Negroes is not new. That is why we kill each other like we do and that is why you attacked me.
Yep…I am one of the prime things wrong with our community. I am married. I am a faithful husband. All my children are in advanced and “gifted” classes as their majority white school. I am a college graduate. I go to work everyday. I mentor. I help other people out regularly. I am a tax payer. Yet….because I connect the dots that draws the picture that reveals an ugly truth that America does not want to accept or deal with…….I epitomize what’s wrong with the black community. Okey Dokey! Further exmple of your keen eye sight....no doubt.....lol
my vision is fine, thank you. you're the one being blinded by your hatred of the white race. you still seem to be stuck on the idea that blacks can't be racist when in fact, you've proven otherwise w/in your own ramblings.
again, don't care what you think of me (though if that's really what you think of me, it's very, very sad that your biased views have so twisted an disarranged what I've said. I won't even waste my energy going over everything you've posted that I so obviously wrong and twisted. I know the truth, as do many who've followed these postings). and it's also sad that, b/c you think you've achieved "success" that you think you still don't personify what is wrong w/ the black community. because, you know, Strom Thurmond was quite successful man, don't you know. and before you jump to any silly conclusions, no, I'm not comparing you directly to Thurmond (thankfully, I doubt you wield any real power to act on your own racist views, unlike Thurmond). he personified some of the racist attitudes of the white race, just as you do of the black race (b/c, again, no matter what you think, blacks can be racist). no worries, you're sadly not alone, there are a lot of blacks playing up the victim card and blaming whites as the only reason they can't succeed.
but I wonder why I should waste my time trying to pry your eyes open when you seem intent on keeping them close. again, you don't seem to have many folks taking you up on this topic, still can't imagine why. I'm fortunate enough to be around blacks who strive to succeed, despite obstacles placed before them and don't fall back to blaming an entire race and past injustices for their lot in life or their mistakes. I'm sad it looks like your own children may not be as lucky and may inherit the victim mentality from their father
good luck to anyone trying to open up this man's eyes. you may find them atrophied due to years of him keeping them shut (oh, what a fun metaphor vision is! )
Last edited by eevee; 04-27-2010 at 01:01 PM..
Reason: sp, added info
trying not to underestimate it, hope it doesn't come off that way. there are still people alive that lived under Jim Crow. it's too soon for the stigma of that to really go away. the stigma of slavery hasn't really gone away. and never mind the fact that racism, despite the BS idea we're in a "post racial world" is alive and well. but again, white racism isn't the source of all the ills of the black community. why is it so hard for blacks to admit that we are part of the problem? enough with placing all the blame whites. you can't forget the past and no one, including me, is suggesting that, but lord knows you can move on. you, IS, seem incapable of moving on. the overall topic of the state of the black community and how it gotten to where it is is a VALID topic idea, but the way you posed your thesis (so obviously biased), your lack of direction here as the OP, and your also obvious biased racist attitude towards whites, it will be impossible to debate such a topic in this thread
and may I reiterate (in bold no less), you have YET to write your actual debate question that as the OP of this thread, you should have done from the word "go". so about you stop ranting about me and actually run your thread and say what you have to say so people can debate it.
That is a glaring straw man fallacy. Every group of people have problems that are of their own making. The question is why do people assume that the black quota for this human propensity is higher, given that our socioeconomic statistics are that much worse. For example, if the poverty rate is 27% nationaly for blacks and 8% nationaly for whites.....I accept that 29% of black poverty is self inflicted, because that would give us the same rate of self inflicted poverty as whites have.
So no one has said that ALL black problems are related to racism.....but rather, that the inequality of the socioeconomic statistics are.
That is a glaring straw man fallacy. Every group of people have problems that are of their own making. The question is why do people assume that the black quota for this human propensity is higher, given that our socioeconomic statistics are that much worse. For example, if the poverty rate is 27% nationaly for blacks and 8% nationaly for whites.....I accept that 29% of black poverty is self inflicted, because that would give us the same rate of self inflicted poverty as whites have.
So no one has said that ALL black problems are related to racism.....but rather, that the inequality of the socioeconomic statistics are.
Dude, can you state exactly:
1. The matter.
2. Your position on this matter.
3. Your arguments to support your position, one by one.
4. Your propositions on how to solve the matter.
Make that 1 dam good post to get this thread in the debate format.
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