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I thought it goes 99 miles? At least that is what I read on another thread.
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Originally Posted by tallrick
Hydrogen alone is a horrible way to store fuel. Fuel cells are expensive and troublesome. We can get the fuel cells more available but we will have engines for years to come. I do not waste my time with hydrogen energy but prefer hydrocarbons- a much safer easier to use fuel. Algae can produce diesel, and we would be closer to that then hydrogen fuel cell cars. I already have used waste vegetable oil for years, and produce diesel from plastic waste and dry algae.
Could you elaborate more on how algae and plastic waste produces diesel? Thanks.
I don't think the electric car is useful in rural areas. due to the distance between towns and neighbors.
Operating solely electric is rarely (if ever) promoted for deep rural areas.
But once you sit back and look at how we really tend to use our cars in the US -- which was the OP starting point on this -- very few of US live or drive in rural areas -- or else those areas would not be rural, huh? Reasonable numbers are that electric could cover 80 to 90% of how we really tend to use them.
Maybe think of this like Cell Phones or High Speed internet. While those are now both very common in city through sub-urban to ex-urban, not all rural areas have Cell or High Speed Internet service (yet?)
So if Electric covered 80 to 90% of things, the remainder can easily be covered with some mix of Ethanol, Biodiesel, Natural Gas, Propane, Hydrogen, on and on and on.
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I think I read something a while back that said Argentina runs on sugar. The Ford cars they sell run on it too - so we know how to do that.
Brazil tends to be the big one in South America regard. They use sugar cane to make Ethanol (Sugar to Alcohol/Ethanol is how Rum is made, also). In the US, Corn is a popular source for Ethanol. (Corn to Alcohol/Ethanol is how Whiskey is made, as well).
Henry Ford's original autos (nearly 100 years ago) could run on Alcohol or Gasoline. Indy 500 race cars run on Ethanol, as well.
There are presently millions of modern US auto that can run on a High Alcohol content fuel (E85 -- 85% Ethanol, 15% Gasoline). While these have been being made for over a decade, only with the recent price run ups has it become popular to promote them as "flex-fuel" vehicles.
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Thirty years ago I drove my friends Honda; it got 50mph. I think the country that stockpiles the most oil the fastest wins the oil war. I think we know how to process oil, too. I saw refineries in Texas down around*Midland I think.
Sure, we have a lot of wells and refineries here in Texas.
Good description of the condition as an "oil war." Turns out it does not matter how much one stockpiles -- if you/we/US are going to keep burning the stuff, one can never stockpile enough. It does not even matter if the cars get 100 or 200 mpg -- if we keep burning it still all just gets burnt up.
As far as "winning," look back at any "war" of Self-Responsibility and how to win it, and you can see a pattern. War on Drugs -- How to win it? Stop using drugs. Huh? Houda figgered?
Same for an Oil War. How to win that? Same game, different name. Stop using it. Want to know who will win the "Oil War?" Whoever stops using it first.
But all these "wars" are really just wars within ourselves that we go kill, maim and harm other people for -- rather than -- egad -- as the OP mentioned -- changing a "habit." Unfortunately for US on our side of the war, America is land of the Land of Near Total Self-Irresponsibility.
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As far as I know T. Boone Pickens constructed the largest windfarm in Sweetwater, Texas - where the wind always blows. I don't know if it was the first in Texas or not. There were a couple of windfarms between Palm Springs and LA in the early 1990s. I saw it after the Joshua Tree Earthquake.*I remember because I was in one of its aftershocks. It was a strange ride.
Big Wind has become So Big here (Texas) that in the Spring and Fall, it sometimes goes into so much surplus, the Grid Operator charges the Windmill Generators (makes THEM pay) to take all that surplus power. Mind boggling, huh?
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Back in the 1990's I recall Sen Harken of Iowa stating they werer using corn to fuel school buses.
The midwest/"corn belt" is pretty big on using Ethanol / E85.
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I think we have the technology and the capibility to change our dependence on oil The question to me is not "Why don't we do it"
Sure the Tech and Capability are usually the easy thing. The rest is a people thing. A favorite preacher of mine used to say that he had the hardest job in the world -- changing people's minds.
If we look at where this thread started, that is far more what it is about than any technical or capacity issue. A fear of changing dysfunctional habits that do not serve US and are clearly harming US. How lame is THAT?
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as much as it is "What do we do with the millions of cars on the road that burn fossil fuel?" I can't afford to change out a n engine or*buy a vehicle that gives me 24MPG when I already have on that gives 23MPG and I don't drive it but a few miles every month. I only gas up 6-7 times a year as it is.
It is not a hard-change overnight thing. It is a transition and disciplined change thing. As mentioned above there are already millions of cars on the road that can run E85 (mostly Ethanol).
As others have mentioned, the new Electrics are so popular that the Nissan Leaf is already sold out for the year, and the Chevy Volts are sold as soon as they can make them and get them to the dealers.
Overall, no one HAS to do anything at all regarding their present car. The overall US auto fleet -- all the cars that all of US own drive, as it were -- is replaced every 7 to 10 years, anyway.
While some folks -- like you and I may drive few miles and have older trucks and cars -- for normal folks, the car wears out and they get a new one. Maybe the new one they choose to get, next time, will not run on Gasoline or Diesel. And then they are "off" Oil. Just like any ending any addiction -- one person, one day at a time.
Just as there are still horses around, we will probably still some folks with Gasoline or Diesel cars around. But like the horses of now -- rather expensive and not real practical.
One thing is for sure. If we do not slowly walk away from Oil -- we will wind up walking . . . slowly.
We are looking at getting one for the business. We can have the salesguys use it to go on site previews for new Solar installations. Looks like we can bundle a charging station in when we put in a new Solar PV install, so it should be a good opener on a cross-market sale.
Only way to get bumped up in line with Chevy is if someone were to cancel their present order that is currently heading for delivery -- and then you take it the way it comes in -- whatever color and whatever features. So I put us on that list.
Why is no one noticing that when you buy a plug-in car, you are using electricity? Do you know what the major source of electricity is in the US? Not wind, not nuclear, not solar, not even hydroelectric dams - but natural gas, oil, and coal. So if everyone switches to electric cars, what sort of 'green technology' is that? How much more of our fossil fuels will have to be used - to supply an admittedly dying, faulty, and collapsing electrical grid - if everyone, or even half of everyone, switches to electric cars?
Most people don't think about something else. The tractors that plow and combines that harvest the food, as well as the trucks that transport food, use diesel. As the prices of diesel climb, as GM insists that taxes be raised to 'force' people to buy electric cars - sending diesel higher as well - your food costs are going to double, even triple. If the people who grow and harvest your food cannot afford diesel - even when bought at lower prices through their co-ops - they will be forced to cease production. Truckers will not be able to transport your food as readily. Since they can't make an electric tractor that can do what a diesel tractor does all day, or a plug-in 18-wheeler that can travel fully loaded across the country in 38 hours, your food deliveries will slow (as will your deliveries for everything else). Most food will not be grown here, and we will be further dependent on shipments from SA and overseas.... shipments that will cost more to transport to every city that demands them. Maybe we can get even more melamine blends from China, or even import more virulent strains of e.coli from Germany, or argue about which SA fruit grower uses less human feces in his production than his neighbor...
While those who are excited and thrilled about being able to plug their car in every evening for their short commutes to and fro around town are the most outspoken about the desireability of electric cars, they apparently don't know from where their electricity - or their food - comes. But it will finally hit home to them if the grid collapses, if their electric companies start doubling their charges to build more fossil-fuel-powered plants or to increase their line quality to repair and sustain the increased demands on the grid, or if their store shelves become less and less stocked with their bean sprouts and tofu - or their beef, oreos, and bread. Of course, by then it will be too late...
But they will still have those really cool electric cars, that "cost them less" to run!
Talk about "self-irresponsibility" - let someone else worry about it...
Why is no one noticing that when you buy a plug-in car, you are using electricity? Do you know what the major source of electricity is in the US? Not wind, not nuclear, not solar, not even hydroelectric dams - but natural gas, oil, and coal. So if everyone switches to electric cars, what sort of 'green technology' is that?
The real world folks we are dealing with intend to use Solar PV to charge their cars. Dunno about the make-believe folks you are projecting?
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How much more of our fossil fuels will have to be used - to supply an admittedly dying, faulty, and collapsing electrical grid - if everyone, or even half of everyone, switches to electric cars?
Failing Electrical Grid . . . total Tin-Foil.
But don't worry the space aliens in area 51 have that all covered.
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Most people don't think about something else. The tractors that plow and combines that harvest the food, as well as the trucks that transport food, use diesel.
Yep. And the horses and mules before them used hay and oats. At any rate, we started the electric farming equipment work a couple of years ago, and some folks are ahead of us on that.
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As the prices of diesel climb, as GM insists that taxes be raised to 'force' people to buy electric cars - sending diesel higher as well - your food costs are going to double, even triple.
GM writes tax policy? Why not? At any rate . . .
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If the people who grow and harvest your food cannot afford diesel - even when bought at lower prices through their co-ops - they will be forced to cease production.
I guess you know Farm use of Diesel does not have Highway tax? But, in general, yes, Higher Fuel costs may likely set the end of the use of Diesel in Farm Land.
Already anticipated this a couple of years ago. So, Good Morning and welcome to the party.
More likely Farm Land will just not be so inclined to stick with last century's preferred fuel -- ie Diesel. Electricity is a good swap out. Lower energy cost, cheaper equipment, less maintenance, longer life. Not a lot to mourn with the passing of Diesel.
Again, in the real world, our refinery numbers we ran a couple of years ago were showing that Diesel based farming would be going down by $10 a gallon. Seems to play out that way from most follow-on numbers I have ran.
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Truckers will not be able to transport your food as readily. Since they can't make an electric tractor that can do what a diesel tractor does all day,
Electric equipment can totally bury diesel tractors. Seriously, you are on the Old Skool track there. Last Century, as it were.
I suppose that Oil was last century was the real learning of the Cheney Energy Task Force. 2001 Their plan for "The New American Century?" Invade Iraq and get that Oil. No Joke. Now that we can cripple away from THAT stupidity, we can get on with getting past Oil.
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or a plug-in 18-wheeler that can travel fully loaded across the country in 38 hours, your food deliveries will slow (as will your deliveries for everything else).
No need to plug in grid-powered rail equipment, it is already there.
But you probably already knew that, too?
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Most food will not be grown here, and we will be further dependent on shipments from SA and overseas.... shipments that will cost more to transport to every city that demands them.
Most food is not grown here, now.
However, most food that is consumed here is grown here.
Why in the face of increasing transport costs would you think that would not be the case? This is beyond tin-foil and is simply illogical.
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Maybe we can get even more melamine blends from China, or even import more virulent strains of e.coli from Germany, or argue about which SA fruit grower uses less human feces in his production than his neighbor...
Thank Free Trade / Free Marketards and the Transnational Corporations for that crap.
Not many else in the US or elsewhere are too fond of that crap.
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While those who are excited and thrilled about being able to plug their car in every evening for their short commutes to and fro around town are the most outspoken about the desireability of electric cars, they apparently don't know from where their electricity - or their food - comes.
Or maybe . . . just maybe You do not know the topic. Just maybe?
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But it will finally hit home to them if the grid collapses,
no, really, the space aliens in area 51 have the grid all taken care of.
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if their electric companies start doubling their charges to build more fossil-fuel-powered plants or to increase their line quality to repair and sustain the increased demands on the grid, or if their store shelves become less and less stocked with their bean sprouts and tofu - or their beef, oreos, and bread. Of course, by then it will be too late...
or, or, or, maybe in the real world -- Electricity in the US is very surplus as are fossil fueled plants, and they are being slowly replaced with Renewables. Maybe? Yeah. Maybe.
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But they will still have those really cool electric cars, that "cost them less" to run!
Actually I sort of think most electrics look a little dweeby -- I guess the Tesla Roadster looks hot -- but what do engineers know about fashion?
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Talk about "self-irresponsibility" - let someone else worry about it...
Maybe we should have started with Self-Education? . . . just saying.
btw, if you really did want to learn anything about the topic, just say so.
Why is no one noticing that when you buy a plug-in car, you are using electricity? Do you know what the major source of electricity is in the US? Not wind, not nuclear, not solar, not even hydroelectric dams - but natural gas, oil, and coal. So if everyone switches to electric cars, what sort of 'green technology' is that? How much more of our fossil fuels will have to be used - to supply an admittedly dying, faulty, and collapsing electrical grid - if everyone, or even half of everyone, switches to electric cars?
Greener than what we have now. Coal -> electricity -> electric drive is cleaner than petroleum -> gasoline -> ICE drive.
What I originally said was hydrogen cars don't change people's driving habits like electric cars.
The concept? excellent, the cost? Exorbitant......
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