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OpenD, do you own an EV? Why do you avoid answering that question?
Sorry, it is simply not a priority of mine to answer all your inane and irrelevant questions.
[quote=Mack Knife;31991551]
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Originally Posted by my54ford
The only reason EV cars can charge off peak is because there are so few of them around. What happens to peak hours if even one third of cars are EV? Consider the amount of electricity a typical EV car requires to charge compared to what an average family uses in a day.
Yes, please do. As I pointed out in another thread, the amount of electricity used to charge up an EV for a typical commute is about equal to running an electric dryer for a couple of hours. That's why electric cars are inexpensive to charge, and why they have much lower energy costs per mile than gasoline cars.
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There will be no off peak. EV proponents never talk about what happens to peak hours when more than a small percentage of cars in use are charging during the "off peak" hours. Off peak hours evaporate.
We're decades from reaching that point, if we ever get there. The development of renewable energy technology isn't going to hold still while the future unfolds. The geothermal generator in my district currently is only running at a 20 MW capacity, soon to be bumped up to 40 MW. But it has the projected capacity to go to 750 MW. Meanwhile the wind farm keeps pumping it out, as the solar concentrator does, and the hydrothermal plant, etc. And since those all have inexhaustible natural energy sources, they're not going to run out.
Now an electric car uses the same amount of electricity as does a clothes dryer run for a couple (that would be 2) hours? Since when?
No wonder you can't figure it out. The average household using an electric clothes dryer uses 1079 kWh per year. That comes out to 2.95 kWh per day.
You can't charge an electric car using that amount of electricity and complete the average commute (32 miles). Go look it up at a site you should be very familiar with : eia.gov I'm sure you know what the eia stands for.
You throw out number as if they are facts when they are nothing but something you made up or read somewhere in marketing materials.
Drive an EV like most people will, some use of the AC or heater, radio, lights and then talk about averages.
Take the average commute for example. Practically worthless because it is a fact that most commuters have much longer commutes than the average and why median number should be used. Regardless, your comment is still factually incorrect. You have nothing but marketing materials to back up your claims.
There is no correlation between the average use of a clothes dryer and the ownership of an EV so don't even go there.
No wonder you can't figure it out. The average household using an electric clothes dryer uses 1079 kWh per year. That comes out to 2.95 kWh per day.
You can't charge an electric car using that amount of electricity and complete the average commute (32 miles). Go look it up at a site you should be very familiar with : eia.gov I'm sure you know what the eia stands for.
Thanks, that site clearly shows you're dead wrong. And not just a little bit wrong, but the usual "your head's in a very dark place" wrong.
And eia.gov shows the average US residential cost per kWh in August 2013 to be 12.51 cents. Electricity Monthly Update
And also, eia.gov EIA's projection, as of July 9, 2013, for the average retail price of regular-grade gasoline for July through December 2013 is $3.38 per gallon. The projection for the average retail price in 2014 is $3.37 per gallon
So let's just do a little basic math... and instead of Tesla's marketing estimate of .283 kWh/mile I'll use the most pessimistic, negative, critical, down and dirty number I can find for real world use of Teslas, not from engineers or PR people, but straight from real Tesla owners on their "Lifetime Average Wh/mi" forum, that they average .367 .kWh per mile traveled. Ready?
.367 kWh per mile traveled X 32 miles = 11.744 kWh for that commute.
11.744 kWh X $.125/kWh = $1.44 for that commute on electricity
vs
Generously assuming 32 mpg actual, at $3.38 /gal = $3.38 for the commute on gasoline.
You can sit down and be quiet now, Mack, we're moving on.
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You throw out number as if they are facts when they are nothing but something you made up or read somewhere in marketing materials.
To the contrary, I routinely fact check what I post, and I post my references, and as an experienced researcher and writer I always consider the source. By contrast you just fling poo, over and over, with no verifiable references. Even your complaints against me are not original, because now you're just recycling my completely accurate criticisms about your posts, but yours against me have no basis in reality.
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Take the average commute for example. Practically worthless because it is a fact that most commuters have much longer commutes than the average and why median number should be used.
Really? That's a fact? Most commuters? Longer than average? References please.
Now go look for yourself and while you're doing that think about all those commute times for places where the commute times are practically nonexistent being added to account for the average.
Averages in this case are practically useless. You use them because it suits you way of looking at things which so far, few can figure out. There is a reason for that.
Take the average commute for example. Practically worthless because it is a fact that most commuters have much longer commutes than the average and why median number should be used. Regardless, your comment is still factually incorrect. You have nothing but marketing materials to back up your claims.
Actually, I have been quoting all kinds of different reliable resources, surveys, and government studies all along, whereas you specialize in unsupported assertions, and personal insults, over and over and over again, even after they've been disproven, often multiple times. And I just showed that you were DEAD WRONG in your claims about electric car charging vs normal household electricity use. The claim was DEAD WRONG, and the amount of electricity you showed as average for a year was off by a factor of 10X.
And the appropriate, adult thing for you to do at this point would be to admit that you made a huge mistake, one that I caught you at, and apologize for being such a rude, insulting, wrong minded wretch, then promise to STOP DOING IT!
But did you do that? No, glutton for punishment that you are, you just ignored your big FAIL completely, as if it never happened, and threw some more... nonsense... around. And once again you are DEAD WRONG on all counts.
Now go look for yourself and while you're doing that think about all those commute times for places where the commute times are practically nonexistent being added to account for the average.
That's certainly one possibility, although there is another possibility. Can you guess what it is?
Here's a hint: you're DEAD WRONG in your basic assumption.
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Averages in this case are practically useless.
You use them because it suits you way of looking at things...
Wrong again! I use them because that is what is readily available, because of the way these statistics are normally delivered to the public... like the map YOU just cited... and median figures are generally hard to obtain without having access to the database. And it's harder still to blindly guess the median from knowing the mean.. or even just guess the correct direction of the mean from the mean, as you tried to do here, and failed at.
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... it suits you way of looking at things, which so far, few can figure out.
Really? You did a survey to find out how many can't figure out my viewpoint? Wow. I'm impressed. How many people did you ask?
Seriously. Was it more than zero people surveyed? Or was this just another one of those bulls*** "facts" you like to pull out of a dark place and fling around?
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There is a reason for that.
How many shares in Tesla do you own?
OK, and here it is, one last piece of nonsense from your fevered imagination, like I couldn't possibly believe in EV technology unless I have some financial interest in it. Sorry, but again you are DEAD WRONG. I have absolutely no tie-in with Tesla or any other EV manufacturer. I'm simply a fan of the technology, as I have been for many years, and I'm excited to see how well developed it has already become, and how quickly it is evolving now.
Now, lets look at your assertion, repeated several times that "most commuters have much longer commutes than the average." In fact, according to the National Household Travel Survey, of the US Department of Transportation, Bureau of Transportation Statistics, August 2012, the opposite is true. It is the very long commutes of a small number of Americans which distort the average figures that are normally reported.
Note - 51% commute less than 10 miles. So the median American commute is actually is less than 10 miles, while the average, or mean, is typically given as 16-18 miles.
So once again, your statement "it is a fact that most commuters have much longer commutes than the average" is proven DEAD WRONG, this time by the MEDIAN numbers from the DOT.
Bankrupt solar panel firm took stimulus money, left a toxic mess, says report. So much for going green!
Good old Fox News, always ready to stir the pot, and turn an old-news story into a fresh football.
Mistakes have been made, no question, but that doesn't invalidate the concept. This was a business that ran into an insurmountable shift in market conditions... Chinese made PV panels dropped in price by two thirds... and they went bust as a result, as many other businesses have in every field where the Chinese have dumped product.
Also, as the Denver Post reported last summer, the toxic chemicals left on site by the sudden shutdowsn have been removed, and 70,000 usable panels were salvaged for sale. After some further cleanup, the property will be available for reuse.
BTW my wind energy from the Appalachian Mountain region costs less than brown power.
Cost to you or costs to everyone?
Is the company you are buying electric from completely self supportive with no subsidies? NO
Are they selling electric at a higher rate than you are paying for it so distributors can meet mandates? Could be.
Are they instead selling credits so power distributors can meet mandates? Could be.
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Very few new coal fired power plants will ever be built in the US.
I think that's given when you have CO2 regulations that even NG plants built in the earlier part of the last decade couldn't meet if they were built today.
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