Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-06-2013, 08:58 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,992,465 times
Reputation: 3572

Advertisements

One of the important issues in a mass transit system is that to get people to abandon cars you have to offer a total solution. You have to run mass transit at times when there is low occupancy because people need transportation during those hours too. Ridership at rush hour will be affected by the availability of transit during low use hours.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-06-2013, 11:48 AM
 
4,715 posts, read 10,519,308 times
Reputation: 2186
I try to replace things with more efficient models once their life cycle (for me) is over. So in the car case, when you would normally replace the car, get a more efficient one. If that's what you want to do. You have a paid off car that is running well, there is almost no amount of savings that will make a car payment vs. no car payment work. This time around, we got a more expensive car, but it runs mostly on electricity (Volt) and we love it. We leased so the payment is close to what the payment on our old SUV was, but now I don't spend the $200/mo on fuel. We've never kept vehicles longer than six years, but we start thinking about it after the 3/36 is over.

I'd let the CFL bulbs burn out and replace with LED. LEDS are slightly dropping in price and why throw out something that is still working? I still have a couple of places I have to run old incandescents - waiting to try LEDS there, CFL burn out quick for some reason in those spots.

I like the sanitizing properties of the dishwasher, I even put my dishwasher safe pots and pans in after I wash them by hand. Not all are, but some are. We are a family of four, filling it to capacity isn't an issue.

The U.S. was built around the premise of owning a car. Blame on whatever you want - but that is way it is. If D.C. was so mass transit capable why do you still have horrific vehicle traffic in the U.S. Don't blame it on tourists, I know better. Not that they help the situation. Although when visiting, I've stayed in hotels and just used public transportation.\

Overall, D.C. has a great public transportation system unlike most of the remainder of the U.S. NYC being an obvious exception and there are others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2013, 01:30 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,992,465 times
Reputation: 3572
DC doesn't have horrific vehicle traffic, the suburbs have horrific vehicle traffic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2013, 02:03 PM
 
4,715 posts, read 10,519,308 times
Reputation: 2186
Semantics. Getting to and from DC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2013, 03:54 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,992,465 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakster View Post
Semantics. Getting to and from DC.
It's not semantics at all. It's why the savy people live in the District and avoid driving to the 'burbs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2013, 07:01 PM
 
4,715 posts, read 10,519,308 times
Reputation: 2186
If you live in DC you would most likely take public transportation to work anyways. Of course there is always the inevitable where in the world do you park part of DC as well, if you don't get a spot from your employer.

If you are savvy you would also live within walking distance of a train/subway into D.C. as well... Without having to live in D.C. Personally, I would do my best to NOT live in D.C. if I had to work in D.C. But that is just because I don't like big cities. I don't like NYC either. Apparently I am not alone in that thinking. Luckily, it isn't my problem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-06-2013, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,436,685 times
Reputation: 10759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakster View Post
The U.S. was built around the premise of owning a car.
This is not accurate. I'm guessing you are not an American or you'd likely be able to put a finer point on it.

Public transportation was very popular and nearly ubiquitous in the US until after WWII. Even small towns had street car lines and bus lines. There were still working streetcars in my small hometown when I was a boy. But post-war, the huge factories that had been building war planes and other war materials were converted over to making cars, in order to keep Americans working.

In well-documented history, General Motors then bought up street-car lines and closed them, in order to create a stronger market for the cars they built. In that period of booming post-war prosperity, building on a taste for individual freedom and the lure of the open road that had been created pre-war by Henry Ford and others, car ownership mushroomed. Then the increase in car ownership fed the growth of suburbs, which previously were built around streetcar stops. And the growth of the suburbs drained the inner city of residents who used public transportation, thereby choking off revenues and leading to further decline of the sector.

But now, more than half a century later the pendulum has reversed. The inner cities are being regentrified by people who ride bicycles and ride buses in preference to cars, and light rail is being installed and new subways being dug.

Quote:
Overall, D.C. has a great public transportation system unlike most of the remainder of the U.S. NYC being an obvious exception and there are others.
Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle... all cities I have lived in, and all cities where I could easily live without a car. But many cities are bad, yes, because they've decentralized, or lost density, so they can't support a high level of transit activity. Today I live in a rural area where there are only three buses a day going into the city, and three a day returning, and they primarily serve day-job commuters and students. One could not work a night job there, or even catch an evening movie, without driving a car.

Fortunately, after many years without good choices in lots of communities, the tide is beginning to turn a little, and public transportation is starting to make a comeback. For one thing the age group of 20s & 30s is showing a pronounced preference for commuting via public transportation over driving in a car because they can use the time for staying in touch via social media. This trend, if it continues, could have huge implications for future transportation patterns and policies in the US.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2013, 06:37 AM
 
17,619 posts, read 17,656,125 times
Reputation: 25684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakster View Post
I try to replace things with more efficient models once their life cycle (for me) is over. So in the car case, when you would normally replace the car, get a more efficient one. If that's what you want to do. You have a paid off car that is running well, there is almost no amount of savings that will make a car payment vs. no car payment work. This time around, we got a more expensive car, but it runs mostly on electricity (Volt) and we love it. We leased so the payment is close to what the payment on our old SUV was, but now I don't spend the $200/mo on fuel. We've never kept vehicles longer than six years, but we start thinking about it after the 3/36 is over.

I'd let the CFL bulbs burn out and replace with LED. LEDS are slightly dropping in price and why throw out something that is still working? I still have a couple of places I have to run old incandescents - waiting to try LEDS there, CFL burn out quick for some reason in those spots.

I like the sanitizing properties of the dishwasher, I even put my dishwasher safe pots and pans in after I wash them by hand. Not all are, but some are. We are a family of four, filling it to capacity isn't an issue.

The U.S. was built around the premise of owning a car. Blame on whatever you want - but that is way it is. If D.C. was so mass transit capable why do you still have horrific vehicle traffic in the U.S. Don't blame it on tourists, I know better. Not that they help the situation. Although when visiting, I've stayed in hotels and just used public transportation.\

Overall, D.C. has a great public transportation system unlike most of the remainder of the U.S. NYC being an obvious exception and there are others.
I bought my 2003 Malibu in September of 2004. It's up to 99,000 miles and it's still running fine (thanks to strict maintenance and paying close attention to how it feels). Right after the warranty expired, I had close to $1,500 in repairs. Babying the car till my wife's car is paid off. My wife's previous car was a 1996 Mazda Protege she bought in 1997. She had it until 2009 when a Jeep ran a stop sign and totaled her car. She was looking forward to 200,000 miles. She was 12,000 miles from that number.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2013, 12:47 PM
 
4,715 posts, read 10,519,308 times
Reputation: 2186
Sorry to hear the wifes car was totaled. And that is kinda of what happened to us and why we ended up with a Volt. Except it was motorcyle that totaled her SUV. (He was going 120 mph and hit her head on - he died and she was lucky she didn't get killed too). I would like to say it was freak accident, but it is all too common down here.

Sounds like you have a good plan - at least I think so....

--

OpenD - Actually my family (roots) have been in the US a very long time - multiple generations. I can trace my roots back the US to the late 1700s... Probably further if I really tried. Most of my family ended up in rural areas. And in fact, my immediate/close family moved to South Florida in the 1940s, when almost no one lived down here. (Residential A/C wasn't around yet - and my grandparents used to have ice delivered to keep food fresh) Once Miami started getting built up most left. A few of us stayed, although I am down to just a few relatives left.

Anyways, when the car companies bought out public transportation, the US was just being formed. Hence my statement. A lot has happened in the past 100 years. We are a fairly young country in the grand scheme of things. You hit the nail on the head, we were going towards a country with a mass transit system until big business (car and oil/gas companies) messed that up. I'm not a big conspiracy person, but this is an exception where I do believe that it was a conspiracy to make most of us have to have cars. Also, there is so much pressure for you to own a car - it's like a right of passage for an American teenager to get a car. Although that mindset is changing with the millennials. Most of my neighbors teenagers didn't get a car while they were in high school, a BIG difference from when I was a teenager.

I guess we will just have to disagree on the state of the US mass transit system. But this is America and we can civilly disagree. If you happen to live and work in the right spots it works. And I will agree that the larger cities, if you want to live and work in the larger city it works. And there is a trend towards that, where as my generation and my parents generation (Baby Boomer and X) the trend was to move out to the 'burbs. I still think a large majority of the country is left out. I know that there are economies to scale and at times it just doesn't make economic sense - but I don't think we are anywhere near that point, yet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2013, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,436,685 times
Reputation: 10759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakster View Post
penD - Actually my family (roots) have been in the US a very long time - multiple generations. I can trace my roots back the US to the late 1700s... Probably further if I really tried.
Buncha noobs. We've been here since 1630.

Quote:
Anyways, when the car companies bought out public transportation, the US was just being formed. Hence my statement. A lot has happened in the past 100 years.
You're off a bit. National City Lines was the holding company backed by GM, Firestone Tire, and Standard Oil, among others, and they started buying up transit companies in 1938, ostensibly to replace the streetcars with GM buses. The war interrupted all that, and personal automobiles were in very short supply during the war and for a couple of years afterward, so for the most part the real streetcar teardowns started after the war, late 40s and early 50s.

Have you been to San Francisco in recent years? They have a whole fleet of classic streetcars from all over the country, which have been fully restored and run along Market Street and the Waterfront. They're great fun, and practical transportation, and they always take me back to childhood memories.

Quote:
I'm not a big conspiracy person, but this is an exception where I do believe that it was a conspiracy to make most of us have to have cars.
I think "conspiracy" is too strong a word. Yes, it was a planned business strategy, but it wasn't a secret, and I honestly believe that the original intent was to replace streetcars with GM buses. Just look at the companies involved. But once the war was over and the troops came home and started families and the housing shortage pushed them out toward suburban developments it became more and more desirable to own cars, and then it became a necessity.

Quote:
Also, there is so much pressure for you to own a car - it's like a right of passage for an American teenager to get a car. Although that mindset is changing with the millennials. Most of my neighbors teenagers didn't get a car while they were in high school, a BIG difference from when I was a teenager.
Exactly. I signed up for my learner's permit on the day I was 15 1/2, took lessons and qualified for my full license on my 16th birthday. I COULD NOT WAIT. But today, young people are waiting until their 20s to learn to drive, if at all. To me a car was all about personal freedom. To many millennials a car is more about expense and responsibility and being isolated from others... all of which have distinct negative connotations to that generation.

Quote:
I guess we will just have to disagree on the state of the US mass transit system.
Don't misunderstand me, I think the overall state of public transportation in the US is poor, especially when you compare it with what is available in the UK for example, where I have been a happy tourist for weeks at a time without a car, crisscrossing the country on train and bus and tube.

And though I have driven a car in San Francisco, I don't recommend it, and I nearly always find public transportation adequate to my needs... if expensive.

In many places, however, such as my current residence near Hilo, Hawai'i, if I take the bus into town in the morning, and then miss the 4:40 bus back, I've got to find a friend to rescue me, or look for a place to stay in town for the night. That's NOT a people friendly schedule, yet I understand that's the best the County can do, because ridership is not high and funding is limited.

Then, between that and the cities where public transport is relatively good, like Chicago and Boston and New York, there is a middle realm where public transportation is kind of OK, but kind of not. It's in a strange kind of limbo, where there is a substantial population that depends on the bus system, but where you can't really get everywhere very conveniently. Austin, Texas, where I used to live fits this description, where some parts of the city are fairly well connected, and some are not, and the buses are cool and clean, but the stops can be dirty and blazing hot.

The city has grown very quickly, creating a huge traffic congestion problem that cannot be solved by adding more traffic lanes, so they are being forced into exploring every alternative possible... adding "super buses" that will run on semi-dedicated lanes and control traffic signals ahead... and regular buses that run on new HOV highway lanes that are expensive toll-lanes for private cars... and light rail that runs only during daytimes, because it runs on tracks that are dedicated to cargo at night... to seriously considering such mind-bending solutions as running tramlines across the downtown area with small passenger pods, because it's the only possibility anybody can think of that is faster than walking. All but the last are in the implementation or pilot phases now.

But I think the timing is right, with an increasing number of younger people abandoning the suburbs and actively re-gentrifying central cities, and committing to very different priorities than the Baby Boomers and Gen-Xers had/have, they're beginning to have serious impact on public transportation planning and policy. All the buses and light rail cars in Austin, for example, have bike racks, and there are dedicated bike lanes all over town, and bike racks at every public building. It's no longer a fringe thing, it's become quite mainstream.

The times, they are a changin'.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top