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Old 04-20-2017, 09:41 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,989,240 times
Reputation: 3572

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nattering Heights View Post
The total energy cost of building and driving a Tesla is much higher (and more expensive) than a gas engine car. Driving a Tesla is greenwashing, not green living.
Driving a Mercedes is more expensive than driving a Kia. That has nothing to do with the environmental properties of the vehicle.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:03 PM
 
Location: 404
3,006 posts, read 1,492,164 times
Reputation: 2599
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Driving a Mercedes is more expensive than driving a Kia. That has nothing to do with the environmental properties of the vehicle.
Unless you count the environmental cost of working more hours or choosing a more destructive career to afford a Mercedes. But Kias are crap anyway. Too many electronic gadgets that will need professional maintenance, like Mercedes and most junk in dealerships now.

Ride a bike.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:25 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,989,240 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nattering Heights View Post
Unless you count the environmental cost of working more hours or choosing a more destructive career to afford a Mercedes. But Kias are crap anyway. Too many electronic gadgets that will need professional maintenance, like Mercedes and most junk in dealerships now.

Ride a bike.
If it helps you sleep at night.

I don't more hours. i just work more valuable hours.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:07 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,181,556 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nattering Heights View Post
Unless you count the environmental cost of working more hours or choosing a more destructive career to afford a Mercedes. But Kias are crap anyway. Too many electronic gadgets that will need professional maintenance, like Mercedes and most junk in dealerships now.

Ride a bike.
I have an electric bike. It's not really feasible for a 40 mile round trip to work. Move you say? My wife works 3 blocks from home and can walk.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Haiku
7,132 posts, read 4,766,162 times
Reputation: 10327
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
I agree that the Powerwall has value as a niche product. But they sold almost a billion dollars in the first year, and they are building one of the largest manufacturing operations in the world. Only two and half years ago, the governor of Nevada was talking about a $100 billion windfall for Nevada.
Read the fine print - Tesla took pre-orders for Power Wall, which if delivered would have generated $800 million in revenue. But they didn't deliver and the orders vanished. In fact what they were selling was a myth - the original Power Wall never worked as Elon Mush promised and it had to be redesigned. It was re-released in September 2016 as Power Wall 2 and is just now starting to sell.

Elon Musk pulled a bait-and-switch and really should have been called on that. Not sure if that is illegal or just unethical or what but I view it as dishonest; not what you want from your CEO.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Haiku
7,132 posts, read 4,766,162 times
Reputation: 10327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota View Post
I always wonder why the market value of Tesla is so huge. Usually, production technology and capacity is what is most important for car makers, together with the brand. Tesla is making 100.000 cars a year. The big guys such as Toyota, VW or GM do that in like 4-5 days. It is a giantific hype and bubble and I do not know if that is going to end as a success story. Either that, or as one of the biggest fails in business history.
Tesla could go the way of DeLorean cars. The story line is similar - smart guy with a vision for a revolutionary car dazzles investors but struggles to make it something other than a niche car. Even if Tesla fails I think he has pushed the envelope for electric vehicles and that is a good thing. We won't always have cheap gasoline and there is that pesky global warming problem, so finding alternative methods of storing energy and powering a vehicle is something that needs to happen anyway.

Tesla will not be successful though unless Musk can get a mainstream car to market - that is, one that costs $30k and can go 250 miles before charging.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:06 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,989,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post

Tesla will not be successful though unless Musk can get a mainstream car to market - that is, one that costs $30k and can go 250 miles before charging.
Porsche says hello
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Haiku
7,132 posts, read 4,766,162 times
Reputation: 10327
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Porsche says hello
Different business model. Porsche has always been a premium car and never tried to be anything else. Porsche had financial problems which pushed them to merge with Volkswagen, so while Porsche remains the high-end car its manufacturing is partly subsidized by VW.

Musk's business model is predicated on volume. This is how he positioned Tesla to investors and is how he has built his factories. Volume can only come through, well, high volume of sales, which he does not have. He could reposition Telsa as another Porsche but it will anger a lot of investors, putting the company valuation at risk, which would limit his ability to raise further capital. Tesla is currently awash with debt.

Musk may want to take a page out of Porsche's book and find a partner to share his factories with. But really, they are being built as robotic assembly lines to crank out his cars so it is unclear if he could retool them for another car.
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Old 04-22-2017, 02:40 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,989,240 times
Reputation: 3572
1. Porsche had no financial need to merge with Volkswagon. If you look at control, it's actually Porsche stockholder in control.

2. Tesla is a premium car and will likely remain so.

3. I'm quite sure Musk hasn't shared his planning with you.

4. Porsche runs its own factories. VW sources electrical and electronic components for them, but then VW has been a Porsche supplier since the very begining.
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Old 04-22-2017, 02:48 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,181,556 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
Different business model. Porsche has always been a premium car and never tried to be anything else. Porsche had financial problems which pushed them to merge with Volkswagen, so while Porsche remains the high-end car its manufacturing is partly subsidized by VW.

Musk's business model is predicated on volume. This is how he positioned Tesla to investors and is how he has built his factories. Volume can only come through, well, high volume of sales, which he does not have. He could reposition Telsa as another Porsche but it will anger a lot of investors, putting the company valuation at risk, which would limit his ability to raise further capital. Tesla is currently awash with debt.

Musk may want to take a page out of Porsche's book and find a partner to share his factories with. But really, they are being built as robotic assembly lines to crank out his cars so it is unclear if he could retool them for another car.
No manufacturer was high volume until they were. Tesla is coming out with another roadster in a few years. Investors aren't going to be mad. They are offering an upgrade to the old roadster that will give it a 400 mile range. A new roadster with a 4-500 mile range will be a huge hit.
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