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Old 07-12-2017, 07:44 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,259 posts, read 5,131,727 times
Reputation: 17752

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
20-30% wind and 20-30% solar are the appropriate niches.

You use terms like "industrial size" that have no meaning in the utility industry. .
For those of us living in the real world, it's pretty standard English signifying production of energy in amounts large enough to be suitable for commercial distribution to multiple consumers.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:06 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Right now, the cheapest source is natural gas. Why use wind, solar, or nuclear at this point? Let's just go with the cheapest option.
Part of our responsibilities is planning for the future.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:38 AM
 
Location: USA
18,492 posts, read 9,159,286 times
Reputation: 8525
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Part of our responsibilities is planning for the future.
Is it responsible to force the next generation to pay 3x to 4x for electricity, for a mere 20% reduction in CO2 emissions from the electricity sector?
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:44 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Is it responsible to force the next generation to pay 3x to 4x for electricity, for a mere 20% reduction in CO2 emissions from the electricity sector?
Objection your honor. That question assumes facts not in evidence.
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Old 07-12-2017, 01:48 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,992,465 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
For those of us living in the real world, it's pretty standard English signifying production of energy in amounts large enough to be suitable for commercial distribution to multiple consumers.
The term you seek is "utility scale".
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Old 07-12-2017, 01:52 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,992,465 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Right now, the cheapest source is natural gas. Why use wind, solar, or nuclear at this point? Let's just go with the cheapest option.
Utility generation is a 40+ year investment. What we in the industry have learned is a diversity of resources is better than trying to chase what is cheapest. That a foolish, high risk approach. Gas hasn't historically been a cheap resource and it may not be in the future.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:08 PM
 
Location: USA
18,492 posts, read 9,159,286 times
Reputation: 8525
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Utility generation is a 40+ year investment. What we in the industry have learned is a diversity of resources is better than trying to chase what is cheapest. That a foolish, high risk approach. Gas hasn't historically been a cheap resource and it may not be in the future.
Correct. So what power sources should we use to back up wind and solar? Coal? Nuclear? Crude Oil? All of the above?
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:09 PM
 
Location: USA
18,492 posts, read 9,159,286 times
Reputation: 8525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Is it responsible to force the next generation to pay 3x to 4x for electricity, for a mere 20% reduction in CO2 emissions from the electricity sector?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Objection your honor. That question assumes facts not in evidence.
Your honor, please Google "German Energiewende."
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Old 07-13-2017, 04:46 AM
 
Location: NH
4,214 posts, read 3,759,540 times
Reputation: 6761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Correct. So what power sources should we use to back up wind and solar? Coal? Nuclear? Crude Oil? All of the above?
I don't understand why there needs to be a backup. Wind, solar, hydro, etc..should be enough if done correctly. If there is too much strain on these at times where there will be outages...well that is just the price you pay if you want to use renewable power sources. If society wants to make a change, if they want to help the environment then they should be willing to accept this.


New technology replaces the old all the time except when it comes to the environment. This leads me to believe that protecting the environment isn't such a big concern as everyone makes it out to be. Its rather a mask, as ive said before, to lead people to believe we are doing all we can. It shouldn't be about money, it should be about doing the right thing for future generations. The thing is, is that there is plenty of money to be made in renewable energy but the people currently making all the money off of the fossil fuel industry would be left high and dry; those people are the ones running the country. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:03 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,259 posts, read 5,131,727 times
Reputation: 17752
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangman66 View Post
I don't understand why there needs to be a backup.
While you and I are may be tougher than a $2 steak, the rest of the civilized world isn't. We could live with intermittent, unpredictable power supplies, but patients on ventilators in the ICU can't be expected to hold their breathes until the sun comes up in the morning or that blocking high pressure air mass finally dissipates after two weeks and the wind starts blowing again.

Energy use is a proxy measure of economic well being. It takes energy to produce things and to move them. With an unreliable energy source, the whole world would become Italy.*

*I once knew an Italian immigrant. On one of those first nice days in spring with perfect weather, I said "Boy this is such great day! I bet in Italy everyone would call in to work to say they're not coming in.".."No," she answered, "No one would call in. We'd know there would be nobody there to answer the phone."
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