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Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto
2nd Law of Thermodynamics makes that inefficient.
In a hybrid, electric motors power the car at low speeds, and are shut off when standing still in stop & go traffic. This avoids the inefficiency of wasting fuel at idle. The ICE kicks on at higher speeds or if the batteries run low.
This set-up makes great sense if you do much big city commuting. I'm familiar with rush hour in Chicago or LA where a 10 mile trip can take an hour-- mostly sitting still on the road.
Anybody know what a hybrid costs? Is the money saved on gas worth it?
edit: just looked it up: Camry (for example) standard ICE ~$24G and hybrid ~ $28G. With fuel $2/gal, you'd have to save 2000 gal to break even. ICE gets ~30mpg (city) and Hybrid 50mpg-- a dif of 20mpg...A 20 mi commute (40 round trip) 250 x a year would be 10,000 miles/yr. That would use 333 gal of gas in the ICE, but only 200 for the hybrid, saving $266/yr....$4000/$266=15 yrs to pay for itself. ...Worth it???...Don't know about anyone else, but I just talked myself out of it as a wise choice.
Many of the current crop of Hybrids are not actually intended to save gas, but to boost the horsepower and torque. The 2018 Acura NSX, for example, gets only 21 City / 22 Highway but has 573 Horsepower,
goes 0-60 mph in 3.1 seconds and its top speed is over 190 mph.
...
In a hybrid, electric motors power the car at low speeds, and are shut off when standing still in stop & go traffic. This avoids the inefficiency of wasting fuel at idle. The ICE kicks on at higher speeds or if the batteries run low.
My Prius Prime plug-in hybrid performs great on the interstate [I-95] at 82mph on EV.
The ICE turns on when the drive battery gets low.
Quote:
... This set-up makes great sense if you do much big city commuting. I'm familiar with rush hour in Chicago or LA where a 10 mile trip can take an hour-- mostly sitting still on the road.
And it is great on the interstate, and on back wood country roads, I have never tried it on inner-city traffic.
Quote:
... Anybody know what a hybrid costs? Is the money saved on gas worth it?
The 2018 Acura NSX, for example, gets only 21 City / 22 Highway but has 573 Horsepower,
goes 0-60 mph in 3.1 seconds and its top speed is over 190 mph.
Wow! I'm really impressed. That'll really come on handy while you're sitting still in rush hour traffic for an hour at a time. ...Virtue signaling anybody? [Carrol Shelby, world renowned engine builder/car designer, famously had a sign over his garage: "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner
My Prius Prime plug-in hybrid performs great on the interstate [I-95] at 82mph on EV.
The ICE turns on when the drive battery gets low.
It is well worth it.
So, you bought an EV and paid for an extra engine that you have to lug around just in case you have to go farther than the batteries can handle. You could have bought the Carolla (ICE only) for $8000 less. It gets 36mpg (hyw). You've said you drive 25mi /d,...let's assume 5 d/wk x 50 wks = 6250 mi/yr...@ 36mpg, that's 174 gal of gas/ yr...@ $2/gal -- you'd spend $348 a yr on gas. $8000/$348 = 23 yrs of driving that EV to get your extra $8Gs back assuming your electricity is free. If the ICE ever kicks on, it'll take even longer. Glad you're happy with it...
Wow! I'm really impressed. That'll really come on handy while you're sitting still in rush hour traffic for an hour at a time. ...Virtue signaling anybody? [Carrol Shelby, world renowned engine builder/car designer, famously had a sign over his garage: "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"]
So, you bought an EV and paid for an extra engine that you have to lug around just in case you have to go farther than the batteries can handle. You could have bought the Carolla (ICE only) for $8000 less. It gets 36mpg (hyw). You've said you drive 25mi /d,...let's assume 5 d/wk x 50 wks = 6250 mi/yr...@ 36mpg, that's 174 gal of gas/ yr...@ $2/gal -- you'd spend $348 a yr on gas. $8000/$348 = 23 yrs of driving that EV to get your extra $8Gs back assuming your electricity is free. If the ICE ever kicks on, it'll take even longer. Glad you're happy with it...
You were saying that hybrids only works at low speeds. Which is false. They work great at freeway speeds. And they are not expensive cars.
Your type is used as an EV with ICE back up-- needed because range is only 25 miles/charge.
That reminds me of the old joke about the two blondes driving their classic VWs. One stalls out & stops on the side of the road. The other pulls hers over to help. The first blonde opens the front bonnet and finds it empty. "No wonder it stopped-- the engine fell out!"...""Oh, you're in luck!" says the other blonde. " I checked in my trunk today and found an extra engine there."
Wow! I'm really impressed. That'll really come on handy while you're sitting still in rush hour traffic for an hour at a time. ...Virtue signaling anybody? [Carrol Shelby, world renowned engine builder/car designer, famously had a sign over his garage: "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"]
So, you bought an EV and paid for an extra engine that you have to lug around just in case you have to go farther than the batteries can handle. You could have bought the Carolla (ICE only) for $8000 less. It gets 36mpg (hyw). You've said you drive 25mi /d,...let's assume 5 d/wk x 50 wks = 6250 mi/yr...@ 36mpg, that's 174 gal of gas/ yr...@ $2/gal -- you'd spend $348 a yr on gas. $8000/$348 = 23 yrs of driving that EV to get your extra $8Gs back assuming your electricity is free. If the ICE ever kicks on, it'll take even longer. Glad you're happy with it...
If everything is about the almighty dollar then we would just dump our trash on the side of the road (actually, in many places this is what they do) and pour our motor oil onto the ground (many people do this also)....
The "extra engine" is a system which has regenerative braking and many other features. I challenge you to drive a Camry gas and then the Hybrid. You will notice not only the 50% better MPG (city), but the feel of the car off the line. My wife, who is looking for a new ride, LOVED that feel of no lag (turbo-lag, etc.).
So you get MUCH more "muscle car" for a relatively small premium. Considering what some people pay for engine and performance upgrades, that's not a bad deal IF it's what you desire.
The increased MPG probably comes with a decrease in pollutants. I know your almighty buck doesn't take that into account, but to MANY people it's very important.
Hybrids are the perfect ride for many people these days. Demand for many EV's is high also, but I will be the first to admit they are not yet fully mainstream. We have very high electric rates so for us the value is not there (not high mileage drivers anyway...).
But if I had PV on the roof of <14 cent KWH, I'd be looking hard.
In a hybrid, electric motors power the car at low speeds, and are shut off when standing still in stop & go traffic. This avoids the inefficiency of wasting fuel at idle. The ICE kicks on at higher speeds or if the batteries run low.
This set-up makes great sense if you do much big city commuting. I'm familiar with rush hour in Chicago or LA where a 10 mile trip can take an hour-- mostly sitting still on the road.
I can see that you are not familiar with modern hybrids at all... which puts you in a position of being unable to add value to this discussion.
A modern hybrid will go highway speeds on EV as long as there's power in the battery. In fact, most modern hybrids will coast for several miles via only the motor since it doesn't take as much power as accelerating.
I can see that you are not familiar with modern hybrids at all... which puts you in a position of being unable to add value to this discussion.
A modern hybrid will go highway speeds on EV as long as there's power in the battery. In fact, most modern hybrids will coast for several miles via only the motor since it doesn't take as much power as accelerating.
Electric vehicles are getting better and better as time goes on. They will become more popular and their power source will most likely change as technology improves. Perhaps future technology will realize how to concentrate solar energy into a more usable form or derive power from falling rain or outside heat. There are some great minds in the world. Finding alternatives to fossil fuels is a great use of their intelligence and a tremendous benefit to our future.
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