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If somebody is "helping" me pay my medical bills, why do we need Obamacare to get involved and make it more costly to me for them to help me pay my bills? You seem to be missing this point.
You keep repeating this, and I keep answering, and you keep ignoring my answer. You are not coming across as intelligent with this remark. Trust me.
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It isn't just rich people, it is middle class people and young people who choose not to have insurance and pay out of pocket in the off chance they need higher cost medical treatment.
More repetition: Unless you have a multi-million dollar net worth, you are being reckless and irresponsible by not having health insurance because you cannot afford a six figure hospital bill.
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The mandate just means they are forcing more people to fund it because they know they are raising costs for insurance big time with doing away with caps and expanding the services that must be offered. They essentially have to deny freedom with the mandate for this horrible mess to be viable at all and it still going to require higher taxes to fund at some point.
The mandate means everyone has to pay for their part of the risk. Everyone (except multimillionaires) has risk of getting unaffordable hospital bill. Therefore everyone needs to pay their share of that risk.
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Stock market doesn't have anything to do with this law. You liberals hate corporations but you act like you know something about stock markets. The stock market is the devil, right? LOL
You suggested Obamacare was intended to bankrupt health insurers. Health insurers are doing better than ever. You were wrong.
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People are going to choose to opt out of insurance and pay the fine b/c it will be cheaper than the insurance so government will be taking money from them for a private healthcare decision and not insuring people so there will still be people uninsured out there. I've seen estimates that 25 percent of people currently uninsured are going to choose to pay the fine rather than get insurance.
The fine will go up and the amount of freeloaders will drop. It's being phased in. But people generally want to have health insurance.
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It is funny to me how people are so passionate about a law that is going to punish people for not having insurance in a financial way, that is denying them the right to make a private healthcare decision that doesn't impact anybody else if they willing to pay out of pocket
Unless you have a seven-figure net worth you cannot pay for a catastrophic hospital bill, and you will inevitably be bailed out by other people.
Your arguments for O-Care are pure anti-corporation and class warfare rhetoric. You just spew "rich people" this and corporation that and we supposed to think you are credible on the issue. You are a collectivist.
It just isnt't true people are going to have 6 figure hospital bills without insurance. LOL that would the rarest of exceptions but you based your entire argument for the mandate on that.
Again, O argued against the mandate using the same reasons as me in 2008. All I am doing is agreeing with O.
I don't have health insurance, I haven't for past year, I pay all my medical costs out of pocket and it is to my advantage to do so. There is no way I am going to need to pay 6 figures for healthcare costs, it would be incredible if it was over 10000 dollars or so max. As I have said, hospitals give the poor discounts on costs and sometimes don't make them pay anything. Our overall healthcare costs already reflect this. So you used low income people as your prop even though they have been getting taking care of already. SHow me a low income person that has a six figure dollar debt on their credit report for healthcare. You should be able to find millions of these people. But you won't. LOL
Your arguments for O-Care are pure anti-corporation and class warfare rhetoric. You just spew "rich people" this and corporation that and we supposed to think you are credible on the issue. You are a collectivist.
I'm actually quite pro-corporation - Obamacare uses private health insurance corporations, and this is a great idea.
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It just isnt't true people are going to have 6 figure hospital bills without insurance. LOL that would the rarest of exceptions but you based your entire argument for the mandate on that.
People do have hospital bills they can never afford. It happens. The costs are transferred to responsible people with insurance such as you and I. The rarity is offset by the extremely high bills. The ERs are full of people who don't have emergencies getting care they will never pay for. If you don't believe me, talk to an ER doctor.
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Again, O argued against the mandate using the same reasons as me in 2008. All I am doing is agreeing with O.
Irrelevant.
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I don't have health insurance, I haven't for past year, I pay all my medical costs out of pocket and it is to my advantage to do so. There is no way I am going to need to pay 6 figures for healthcare costs, it would be incredible if it was over 10000 dollars or so max.
Congratulations on beign young and healthy. I sincerely hope and will pray that you stay that way. But remember, every sick person used to be young and healthy, too.
I used to be young and healthy before I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis at the age of 22. There is no cause known and no cure developed yet and it requires lifetime treatment. Until this month, I could not get health insurance without an employer group plan. I could not leave if I didn't like the service. When I was laid off I was stuck paying $1200 per month out of pocket in COBRA health insurance extension just so my next insurer would cover my colitis. I am extremely happy we have Obamacare now and I don't have to worry about ever being denied coverage. I'm also glad I have the option now of working for a small business or for myself and still having access to coverage.
If you think a hospital bill over $10,000 is unrealistic, you need a serious reality check. I doubt anyone could do any kind of surgery at all for under $10,000. My wife recently had routine outptient surgery that cost $40,000.
Private insurance companies aren't really private if government is dictating what they must do and what they can't do in a product they offer to customers.
This is really a type of economic fascism. Right now they are controlling the healthcare industry without a complete takeover but that will come as government puts insurance companies out of business with these unrealistic demands on insurance companies that increase their costs.
Irrational hatred of insurance companies and ignorance of why they have certain policies is at the heart of why the obamacare fanboys support it. That isn't hard to figure out. A lot of them just want to stick it to the insurance companies and they view government as the "evil" corporation slayer. Democrats want you to see them that way, b/c they will be your savoir from the big bad corporations ostensibly screwing you over. It basically is the Two Minute Hate in 1984.
About 50 percent of the uninsured are between ages 18 and 34. Hardly seems like the crisis and high cost that Democrats make it out to be. The majority of these people will be able to pay their healthcare costs, they are self insured. Democrats need everything to be a crisis so people will support big government "solutions" to the "crisis".
At the end of the day, you are a control freak who supports something give you a benefit at the expense of other people. You are not interested in good government policies that benefits the maximum number of people.
Again, the goal should be to determine the reasons why healthcare costs so much and then reduce or eliminate these factors and make healthcare costs less expensive. This is what Republicans want, while Democrats just want to transfer the costs off from the high cost people to the low cost people, and do absolutely nothing about the real problem.
Another goal should be to get people back to work which O clearly does not care about after 5 plus years of a dismal economy so people can sign up for group plans.
It does matter that O argued against the mandate because obviously he understood the arguments against it and plus he was elected while supporting that. It is voter fraud to lie about something that obviously impacts people's personal medical decisions in a profound way.
Private insurance companies aren't really private if government is dictating what they must do and what they can't do in a product they offer to customers.
Not really important. The system works better now.
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Right now they are controlling the healthcare industry without a complete takeover but that will come as government puts insurance companies out of business with these unrealistic demands on insurance companies that increase their costs.
Health insurance companies such as United Healthcare are trading at higher stock prices than ever before. They are not going out of business. Market analysts do not say they are going out of business. Their profits are not indicating they are going out of business. You are wrong.
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Irrational hatred of insurance companies and ignorance of why they have certain policies is at the heart of why the obamacare fanboys support it. That isn't hard to figure out. A lot of them just want to stick it to the insurance companies and they view government as the "evil" corporation slayer. Democrats want you to see them that way, b/c they will be your savoir from the big bad corporations ostensibly screwing you over. It basically is the Two Minute Hate in 1984.
I'm cheering about how well the insurance companies are doing - I have no idea where you are getting this.
The reasons they had policies such as pre-existing condition exclusions no longer apply now that we have an individual mandate.
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About 50 percent of the uninsured are between ages 18 and 34. Hardly seems like the crisis and high cost that Democrats make it out to be. The majority of these people will be able to pay their healthcare costs, they are self insured.
Most people will not have catastrophic hospital bills. But everyone has a risk of an injury or illness that will result in catastrophic hospital bills. And one unpaid catastrophic hospital bill drives up everyone's rates.
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At the end of the day, you are a control freak
Name calling is not constructive.
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Again, the goal should be to determine the reasons why healthcare costs so much and then reduce or eliminate these factors and make healthcare costs less expensive.
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Another goal should be to get people back to work which O clearly does not care about after 5 plus years of a dismal economy so people can sign up for group plans.
The unemployment rate has been steadily declining since late 2009. Source
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It does matter that O argued against the mandate because obviously he understood the arguments against it and plus he was elected while supporting that. It is voter fraud to lie about something that obviously impacts people's personal medical decisions in a profound way.
The President cannot unilaterally pass a law. It has to be approved by both houses of Congress first. A lot of people have their hands in the process. But Obama was wrong, an insurance mandate is crucial, for reasons I have repeatedly described.
High stock prices mean nothing at this point. I'd be selling those why they are high b/c they are coming down big time in due time. LOL There's just no way you can insure more people with no caps on claims and still be as profitable in the long run. A lot of people are assuming that a lot of people will chose to sign up rather than pay the fine but paying the fine and opting out is really the best thing conservatives could do to undermine O-Care, because the system needs healthy low cost people to pay the crazy high costs of people with no caps on what they can be paid. This is really going to be our new Operation Chaos I suspect. LOL They will eventually raise the fine so high that you can't realistically choose to pay the fine rather than buy their rip off plan.
No Republican voted for Obamacare, That is why you are seeing so much opposition now. They used some kind of political trickery to reduce the number of votes they needed to pass it and it was straight line Democrat support. It isn't our bill so you can't argue it is bi-partisan.
The mandate is crucial to make Obamacare even possible b/c there is no way you can pay high cost people's claims without as many low risk low cost people in the system as possible. Healthy and financially self reliant people who want to be free to make to self insure are an enemy to the people who want government controlled healthcare, obviously. LOL
Obama did run on a big lie but libs think that is great. LOL
Unemployment isn't going down. You guys will say anything at this point b/c brown nosing Obama is your life.
Here's Obama's lies: There will be no individual mandate.
Family of 4 will see their premium go down 2500. This isn't true, most families will see their premiums go up as they must to pay for the high cost people with preexisting conditions coupled with the caps on payouts being lifted.
You can keep your plan if you want it. This has been proven not true already as companies just layoff employees to avoid taking on the additional costs of the insurance as a result of O-Care. Therefore they lose their plan, and their job or there salary is reduced to part time.
The lurkers on this great forum, the Silent Majority, the greatest people among us, are with me on this issue. I am their gladiator. As long as I have the people, the lurkers, that is all that matters to me.
I am the O-Care Slayer.
This is 2013, this is the modern GOP, this is how we do it now. Boom.
I bet that gladiator job you got there doesn't provide insurance and now you're waiting for the website to load to see if you can afford insurance and internet AT THE SAME TIME?!
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