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Yeah, St Pete and Florida cities are flat and lend themselves to that. The roads are curved here due to the large cost of excavating earth to make them all straight. I did like that driving in Florida, drive too far and you hit the ocean!
Greenville is not that hilly. I've lived in many cities with more hills that Greenville where the roads work in the way described. If you are saying Greenville is unwilling to spend the money to make the roads straight, then I guess you could be right. What I think is that the original patterns were haphazard and developed moreso that way over the years, and there's really no way to change it now, lol.
Greenville is not that hilly. I've lived in many cities with more hills that Greenville where the roads work in the way described. If you are saying Greenville is unwilling to spend the money to make the roads straight, then I guess you could be right. What I think is that the original patterns were haphazard and developed moreso that way over the years, and there's really no way to change it now, lol.
While some of the earliest cities on the east coast were planned on a grid, like NY, Boston, Philly, DC, most grew organically and unplanned, based on old foot and horse and buggy traffic, sometimes even old native-American trails.
Florida was considered unusable swamp and wasn't developed until later, so it was planned like most places west of the Mississippi: on a grid. On the grid, there are multiple ways to get from A to B, and finding your way is easy as long as you can keep North, South, East, and West straight.
But in unplanned areas of the east coast like Greenville, the routes are pretty haphazard and random, with notable exceptions of immediate downtowns. Road names are also confusing because they weren't planned out and often repeat, take random turns, etc.
The conservative wariness of government doesn't help things either in this regard.
This area was once very rural and mostly agricultural. Main roads were built to get from point A to point B. Thus we have names like Anderson, Laurens Rd, Cleveland St., Augusta Rd, Old Spartanburg Rd , Pickens, Easley and Poinsett Hwys, Buncombe and Rutherford Roads. Every farm along a route was considered and roads often curved to give them easier access, especially since part of the annual labor force used to maintain them was, by law, provided by those very same farmers. Contour of the terrain was a strong consideration. They didn't just move a hill, in order to go straight, if going around it was more feasible. Some of the roads even followed existing trails that the local Indian tribes originally created. Connecting the local land owners and farmers to markets was the reason for the meandering routes taken by many of what were secondary roads of the times. Land locking was not something any land owner wanted to happen to them.
Over the ensuing years, additional segmented road construction divided, incorporated, abandoned or obscured portions of many of the early original roads. Try tracing the original Chick Springs Road, the one that led to the CS resort, and it makes the East and West North street confusion seem mild. The same obscuring process took place in the downtown zones, as it's grown and developed.
The grid system is easily used for towns, but it wouldn't work where property lines were usually bounded by creeks or other natural boundaries. Land was often sold in odd shapes and then resold again and again. Your own 1/4 acre dream plot was once part of a much larger farm property, somewhere in the past. As plots grew smaller, more roads had to meander around to access more odd shapes, connecting them to the system.
i don't like cities, metroes where roads are in a grid pattern. driving on curvy roads is more fun.
not sure how anybody can live here for a few months and still get lost without GPS. seems like everybody should be near 85, 385, 123, Wade Hampton, Pleasantburg, 14, etc. if you keep driving and don't run into one of these, you probably are not in Greenville anymore.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 11-04-2016 at 10:50 AM..
i don't like cities, metroes where roads are in a grid pattern. driving on curvy roads is more fun.
not sure how anybody can live here for a few months and still get lost without GPS. seems like everybody should be near 85, 385, 123, Wade Hampton, Pleasantburg, 14, etc. if you keep driving and don't run into one of these, you probably are not in Greenville anymore.
The Bend, OR thread has a great list going of the disadvantages of living there. People still absolutely love the area, but since no place is perfect, it is nice to put some of the negatives out there for those considering a move.
Visited Greenville last week and fell in love! This has moved up to our top spot for retirement in four years.
I'd love it if some of you could objectively point out some of the negatives that you see.
Here are the things I can think of as only a one time visitor:
1. Smokers. Wow! I've haven't seen that many people smoke since the 70's. It seemed like every other person was smoking.
2. Some sidewalks are in disrepair. Thinking about this in terms of retirement, I can see this being an issue as we age. Roots from trees were causing some sidewalks to buckle. We were staying on Camperdown Way and some of the sidewalks and curbing were crumbling on our walks into downtown.
3. Not the greatest atmosphere for a liberal...or a vegan.
I'll take a stab at it, as a native.
- Heat and Humidity. Even as a SE native, I do not like the heat and humidity, and it has definitely gotten hotter over the years. The upstate, while about the coolest part of the state, still has pretty unbearable summers, and the summers are getting hotter and longer. I personally would like a climate like Boone, NC, much cooler summers and some snow in the winter.
- Proliferation of Junkyards and just generally trashy areas around town, especially circling DT on the Westside, Pete Hollis, and White Horse Road areas. There just seems to be a lot of huge sprawled out auto junkyards and dilapidated buildings all around some of these areas, and they sit for years just accumulating junk, with surrounding neighborhoods looking run down. Eventually some of these near the Pete Hollis bridge will be developed as DT continues to spread out. There is also a lot of litter around some areas of Greenville and the upstate - a pet peeve of mine. This is true anywhere in the country, but we have a lot here too.
-Bugs/Allergies/Weeds. I really don't mind bugs and spiders at all but it gets old fighting them inside. Over the past few years we've had multiple Argentine Ant invasions (Terro liquid is the magic for them!), roaches, a severe pantry moth infestation, and even black widows, all in the house! It's a fight every spring/summer. If you spray really good in the spring you can keep most of them at bay. Others have commented on the allergies and it simply is not a good area for that. Weeds: it can be a full time job trying to maintain a yard the way stuff grows around here- weeds, vines, shrubs, etc, it;s just a lot to keep up with, even in dry years like this one. That's pretty standard, though, for the Eastern US and anywhere that typically receives a lot of rainfall.
- Lack of options at our airport. GSP just doesn't offer much in the way of direct flights. Being in the middle of Atlanta and Charlotte has some advantages, but it doesn't allow much opportunity for airport growth here. Unless you are specifically flying to a hub in the SE, you'll have to go to CLT or ATL for anything direct. Flights to the Northeast, and places like Denver, Los Angeles, Vegas, and Miami are all on their radar, but it will be quite some time before any of these happen.
- Sprawl. This is relative, of course, but upstate sprawl is a little frustrating. It is really a product of the upstate having no true urban center, and instead having multiple areas of concentration- Greenville, Anderson, Spartanburg, Seneca, Greenwood, Abbeville, etc. Over the decades all these places have competed for development leading to a low concentration of development within them, plus, low density development between them. You have to take the good with the bad in this aspect; it's nice to have many different towns/cities and different options, but the sprawl is an unfortunate and messy consequence.
Just some negatives that I see off the top of my head. Of course, these are only my opinions, and others may see these very differently.
Last edited by distortedlogic; 11-04-2016 at 06:42 PM..
- Heat and Humidity. Even as a SE native, I do not like the heat and humidity, and it has definitely gotten hotter over the years. The upstate, while about the coolest part of the state, still has pretty unbearable summers, and the summers are getting hotter and longer. I personally would like a climate like Boone, NC, much cooler summers and some snow in the winter.
- Proliferation of Junkyards and just generally trashy areas around town, especially circling DT on the Westside, Pete Hollis, and White Horse Road areas. There just seems to be a lot of huge sprawled out auto junkyards and dilapidated buildings all around some of these areas, and they sit for years just accumulating junk, with surrounding neighborhoods looking run down. Eventually some of these near the Pete Hollis bridge will be developed as DT continues to spread out. There is also a lot of litter around some areas of Greenville and the upstate - a pet peeve of mine. This is true anywhere in the country, but we have a lot here too.
-Bugs/Allergies/Weeds. I really don't mind bugs and spiders at all but it gets old fighting them inside. Over the past few years we've had multiple Argentine Ant invasions (Terro liquid is the magic for them!), roaches, a severe pantry moth infestation, and even black widows, all in the house! It's a fight every spring/summer. If you spray really good in the spring you can keep most of them at bay. Others have commented on the allergies and it simply is not a good area for that. Weeds: it can be a full time job trying to maintain a yard the way stuff grows around here- weeds, vines, shrubs, etc, it;s just a lot to keep up with, even in dry years like this one. That's pretty standard, though, for the Eastern US and anywhere that typically receives a lot of rainfall.
- Lack of options at our airport. GSP just doesn't offer much in the way of direct flights. Being in the middle of Atlanta and Charlotte has some advantages, but it doesn't allow much opportunity for airport growth here. Unless you are specifically flying to a hub in the SE, you'll have to go to CLT or ATL for anything direct. Flights to the Northeast, and places like Denver, Los Angeles, Vegas, and Miami are all on their radar, but it will be quite some time before any of these happen.
- Sprawl. This is relative, of course, but upstate sprawl is a little frustrating. It is really a product of the upstate having no true urban center, and instead having multiple areas of concentration- Greenville, Anderson, Spartanburg, Seneca, Greenwood, Abbeville, etc. Over the decades all these places have competed for development leading to a low concentration of development within them, plus, low density development between them. You have to take the good with the bad in this aspect; it's nice to have many different towns/cities and different options, but the sprawl is an unfortunate and messy consequence.
Just some negatives that I see off the top of my head. Of course, these are only my opinions, and others may see these very differently.
Ugh, I had the issue with ants and pantry moths this year. (never had them before! They were so hard to get rid of!) I guess it could happen anywhere.
I wanted to post some of my thoughts (for what they're worth) on the debate of the racial/political/social/religious interactions of the area, that have been presented in this thread (and others). If you have been disrespected by others for your positions or standing, that is truly unfortunate and it's really too bad that people cannot look beyond the petty and minuscule differences among us and extend some human-felt respect and observance of brotherhood (no disrespect to sisterhood . However, I must say that this is in no way a phenomenon unique to Greenville or the upstate. Unfortunately, this is a human condition, and it is displayed by everyone! I personally have traveled extensively around the US, have many friends from various parts of the US, and have also lived out West (as well as overseas). I have heard the same type of words and witnessed the same type of behaviors from people in every region of the country. The only differences are the accent with which those people speak, and the region they call home.
I welcome others to share their racial/political/social/religious experiences, especially as it relates to how the people of our area manage (or do not manage) to relate in all these areas. However, I do not think it is constructive to paint all of Greenville, The Upstate, SC, or the Southeast as a whole, as a region that treats people any different or worse than people of other regions treat others. Each region has it's tendencies and primary schools of thought, and, based on the human condition we all have, it's inhabitants may well clash with those who come from another. One may go to a place whose inhabitants primarily hold a different philosophy, and it is true that he or she may be seen as different or even met with hostility; yet it would not be reasonable to expect this to be untrue no matter the traveler or the region.
The South itself is one of the most prejudged regions of the country. How many Hollywood movies and popular cultural depictions truly dump Southern stereotypes and attempt to capture the beauty of southern soil and culture? One of the reasons some southerners react with hostility is because other people sometimes come with disdain, disrespect, or prejudice towards southern people and culture (or their primary philosophical approach), while concurrently focusing on the faults of the people and culture in the South itself. Truly, we all have planks in our eyes!
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. However, I must say that this is in no way a phenomenon unique to Greenville or the upstate. Unfortunately, this is a human condition, and it is displayed by everyone! I personally have traveled extensively around the US, have many friends from various parts of the US, and have also lived out West (as well as overseas). I have heard the same type of words and witnessed the same type of behaviors from people in every region of the country. The only differences are the accent with which those people speak, and the region they call home. 
