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I figure it's a coping mechanism and it's certainly better than any alternative, which would require needless, emotional commitment.
Yeah, I'm sure it's some kind of deal lilke that. A couple of yrs ago, a co-worker of mine, his son was killed in a car crash a day or two after Christmas.
I called him up.... I didn't know what to say to him... It was like someone physically struck him in the gut.
I'm sure I babbled the over used platitudes.... I don't even remember what I said to him..... It was a hard phone call to make.
Just because your an atheist doesn't mean she is one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepgirl27
I don't have the same religious values as most of my friends or family..
But when someone makes a comment out of sympathy, I know they aren't trying to go against my religious beliefs but to show respect to the person I lost. What has she done that was so wrong to get you angry?
I'm still not seeing it.
I'm not sure where in my OP there is great anger expressed. I said I was annoyed. I said I loved her for it. I said I don't share her bright-eyed, youthful view, but am just p*ssed about the whole thing (his death).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MzSJP
You shouldn't project your own hopeless views on others. The majority of people on this earth do believe in a high power and a happy after-life as promised to those who believe. So if you are maintaining a memorial site, you should expect to see things like this often.
How am I projecting my views? I'm stating my views, not projecting them onto anyone. If I were projecting them the OP would look very different. Any way, the more I consider the saying, the more hallow it appears. Do people really believe their loved-ones are in a better place? If so, why do they grieve so hard? If folk really believed in a big daddy in the sky dishing out joyous rewards upon death, I don't see where grief would fit. It would be a party. To me, based on my experiences, it looks like many walk this fine line of trying to convince themselves of this or that fantasy and a nagging reality of cluelessness, but they say what they must to themselves to keep it a bit more one-sided. I’m sure that might sound insulting to some, but most of the time I find plenty of doubt from religious folk. They don’t really know. Deep down they know it, but they hope. That’s all fine and well, but for those of us who don’t spend time in that space, it’s just a thoughtless saying. Death is not a better place, at least not for my brother.
Braunwyn, I truly didn't intend for this to sound judgemental toward you or anyone else. It was simply a statement of how I had to view things in order to personally survive my own tragedy. It could be that this is how his friend is also coping.
The "feelings" and the depth of those feelings are no different than physical pain tolerance. Some people feel more pain, more intensely, and are consumed with it. Some folks create mental distractions in order to cope with that pain in order to lessen the intensity of it. The "better place" distraction is simply one of the many ways of coping with that pain. Yet another strategy in death is to feel anger, either by remembering all of the negative things that the deceased person has done, or by being angry and picking apart statments made by others....or....the list goes one.
There really is no right or wrong way to deal with grief, unless you allow it to destroy yourself or hurt others. Even then, we still have to try to remember that everyone is simply trying to figure out how to live without the person that they lost. (((((hugs))))) I truly am sorry for your loss.
Ok, tho, I'm not sure what the "" was about. As far as this girl goes and grief, eh. She hardly knew my brother. Her dad was his bf from HS. He moved down to FLA and stayed with them for a couple of months where he became friendly with the daughter. About a year later they were neighbors for another couple of months. Don't get me wrong, they were friendly, but that relationship was a peripheral event. She's being sweet, but I think it begins and ends there.
I'm not sure where in my OP there is great anger expressed. I said I was annoyed. I said I loved her for it. I said I don't share her bright-eyed, youthful view, but am just p*ssed about the whole thing (his death).
How am I projecting my views? I'm stating my views, not projecting them onto anyone. If I were projecting them the OP would look very different. Any way, the more I consider the saying, the more hallow it appears. Do people really believe their loved-ones are in a better place? If so, why do they grieve so hard? If folk really believed in a big daddy in the sky dishing out joyous rewards upon death, I don't see where grief would fit. It would be a party. To me, based on my experiences, it looks like many walk this fine line of trying to convince themselves of this or that fantasy and a nagging reality of cluelessness, but they say what they must to themselves to keep it a bit more one-sided. I’m sure that might sound insulting to some, but most of the time I find plenty of doubt from religious folk. They don’t really know. Deep down they know it, but they hope. That’s all fine and well, but for those of us who don’t spend time in that space, it’s just a thoughtless saying. Death is not a better place, at least not for my brother.
We grieve because we have lost something that is infinity precious, valuable and irreplaceable to us.
Regardless of what one believes about the other side of life, the fact remains that the ones left behind suffer loss. And it hurts.
As far as this girl goes and grief, eh. She hardly knew my brother. Her dad was his bf from HS. He moved down to FLA and stayed with them for a couple of months where he became friendly with the daughter. About a year later they were neighbors for another couple of months. Don't get me wrong, they were friendly, but that relationship was a peripheral event. She's being sweet, but I think it begins and ends there.
I can see where you're coming from here...
We can easily become possessive or protective of a loved one's memory because often it seems other people's lives just go on as normal, when ours clearly do not.
They say stupid cliche things sometimes, usually when it's convenient for them. Like a brief, passing thought, and nothing more.
It's nice that people care to show their "condolences"..But it's easy for them to say this or that because that memory of the loved one comes and goes for them. It's not constant, as they are not plagued with the reminder of that emptyness, day in day out, like some of us are.
They kind of bother me. I would never in a million years respond negatively, but they annoy me. There's this one girl (the daughter [18-19 yrs old] of my bro's friend) that leaves messages like this on my brother's fb page. I really like that she still thinks of him. It means the world to me, to be honest, but the whole "you're in a better place", as an atheist, gets me ruffled. I think to myself, "no, he's not in a better place, he's in no place. And before that he suffered a majority of the time for the past 20 years". I love her for it, tho. I love her young, bright-eyed, hopeful youth. It's awesome. Me, OTOH, am just p*ssed about the whole thing. The consequence of this is that I spoil his dog beyond reproach. She's the queen of my house.
Ahh, I'm having a sharing night. Any way, to the peeps who have lost, or can imagine, and maintain an ongoing, interactive memorial, how do you feel about such sentiments or what do you think?
My thoughts are this....people react differently to different life experiences, and death is one in which, it's very difficult to know what to do or say. You want like anything to comfort the person, especially if you've lost a loving family member, and know the pain of having a huge hole in your life...so, don't be to hard on them, as they want to do or say something to show they care and are concerned...you cannot dictate how people will react to different life experiences....we're all different....and basically, we all want to help to sooth the pain that our friends/family are dealing with in a loss.
Ok, tho, I'm not sure what the "" was about. As far as this girl goes and grief, eh. She hardly knew my brother. Her dad was his bf from HS. He moved down to FLA and stayed with them for a couple of months where he became friendly with the daughter. About a year later they were neighbors for another couple of months. Don't get me wrong, they were friendly, but that relationship was a peripheral event. She's being sweet, but I think it begins and ends there.
I have heard people say, out loud, "He/she is better off dead"...THAT is what the was all about. Clearly you are still in a great deal of pain and for that I'm truly sorry, but is lashing out at others making you feel any better? As for those you choose to believe/hope in "something better" on the other side...yes, it's HOPE. Why, just because you are hurting over your brother's death, would you want to destroy others' hope? If you choose to believe that there IS no better place after life, that's fine, your prerogative.
What if you went to a funeral and heard a widow say, "He's suffered for so long, such terrible, terrible pain...such humiliation over not being able to perform even the most basic duties for himself. He's with the Lord now though...he can walk, he can talk, he is finally pain free and full of joy"? Would you tell her, "You don't really believe that, do you? You do realize don't you that he's just GONE, don't you?....that this GOD business is simply a LIE? Well....it is!"
Ann Landers, or is it Dear Abby, one, says it's better to say SOMEthing, rather than act as if the one who is gone had never existed. A simple "I'm sorry for your loss" is better than nothing at all.
I worked with a woman I was very fond of, knew her husband and their dog. I didn't know them outside of work, but since he picked her up every day, and brought the dog, from the time she was a puppy and I am fond of pets, the dog and I became quite good friends.
A few years after I left that job I heard the woman had an aggressive cancer. Oddly enough, several times in the interim I ran into the dog and her papa at the vet,(and still do) and the dog always remembers me, she's an old lady now.
Anyway, I then heard that the woman had died. The next time I saw her husband was in the grocery store. I greeted him and told him I was sorry to hear about his wife. He thanked me. And then, without thinking, the next thing I said was "How is (dog's name) holding up?" He didn't seem to think it was odd that I asked how the dog was instead of how he was, he answered that she was moping and missing her a lot. But after we parted I felt kind of...bad that I had asked about the dog rather than about him or any of the human family.
But he didn't seem to mind, and it came straight from my heart.
We grieve because we have lost something that is infinity precious, valuable and irreplaceable to us.
Regardless of what one believes about the other side of life, the fact remains that the ones left behind suffer loss. And it hurts.
If I believed in an afterlife I would not feel as bad for him or at least that's how I imagine it. It's just bizarre to me. For example, my mom is a devout Catholic. She's had a mass said for him every month. She bought a chalice, had it engraved, and gave it to a new priest that would use it. She suffers so much over him. OTOH, she believes her God to be vengeful and spiteful. So, I guess if a person thinks their loved one is possibly being tortured on another plain then they'd grieve hard. I can't wrap my head around that stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Vanderburgh
If you wish to comfort someone who is going through a loss and you don't know what to say, it is perfectly fine to say "I don't know what to say."
Being available for someone you care about is more important than the words you speak.
FWIW TWFAF IMHO IIRC OSLT
There are lots of generic things to say that don't personally bug me. I'm sorry for your loss. You're in my thoughts and prayers, etc. I guess, as others have noted, is that it bugs me for anyone who really didn't know him to state how he is, was, will be, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D217
I can see where you're coming from here...
We can easily become possessive or protective of a loved one's memory because often it seems other people's lives just go on as normal, when ours clearly do not.
They say stupid cliche things sometimes, usually when it's convenient for them. Like a brief, passing thought, and nothing more.
It's nice that people care to show their "condolences"..But it's easy for them to say this or that because that memory of the loved one comes and goes for them. It's not constant, as they are not plagued with the reminder of that emptyness, day in day out, like some of us are.
That's real.
Agreed 100%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee
My thoughts are this....people react differently to different life experiences, and death is one in which, it's very difficult to know what to do or say. You want like anything to comfort the person, especially if you've lost a loving family member, and know the pain of having a huge hole in your life...so, don't be to hard on them, as they want to do or say something to show they care and are concerned...you cannot dictate how people will react to different life experiences....we're all different....and basically, we all want to help to sooth the pain that our friends/family are dealing with in a loss.
I hope this has helped some.
Her comments didn't have anything to do with me. I know this thread has gone in that direction, but it wasn't a matter of condolensces. We're not fb friends or anything like that. She was directing them to my brother and general viewers of his page. I know an aspect of my annoyance is an impatience with general stupidity. Normally, it goes over my head because I don't pay attention, but coupled with the loss it hit my radar. Again, not a big deal emotionally. I'm not crying grieving over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel
I have heard people say, out loud, "He/she is better off dead"...THAT is what the was all about. Clearly you are still in a great deal of pain and for that I'm truly sorry, but is lashing out at others making you feel any better?
I, in no way, have expressed any lashing towards this girl. I know this because I have not experienced it. Your post, OTOH, as an online friend irked me, but I guess that was a misunderstanding with the emoticon. And "he's better off dead" as an alternative to "he's in a better place" doesn't fly. Both statements are devoid of thoughtfulness.
Quote:
As for those you choose to believe/hope in "something better" on the other side...yes, it's HOPE. Why, just because you are hurting over your brother's death, would you want to destroy others' hope? If you choose to believe that there IS no better place after life, that's fine, your prerogative.
Again, I didn't respond to her post with anything, but support. I'm certainly not going to tell her I don't think there's a better place. OTOH, I will do so here and that's a big difference.
Quote:
What if you went to a funeral and heard a widow say, "He's suffered for so long, such terrible, terrible pain...such humiliation over not being able to perform even the most basic duties for himself. He's with the Lord now though...he can walk, he can talk, he is finally pain free and full of joy"? Would you tell her, "You don't really believe that, do you? You do realize don't you that he's just GONE, don't you?....that this GOD business is simply a LIE? Well....it is!"
See above and as far as my feelings about it go, it would depend on the person and situation. If an attendee knew the person well enough to know his suffering, who is grieving, then sure. My mother has every right to say whatever she wants. Nobody knew him better than her and I. I suppose this is also a matter of impatience with a lack of social intelligence. Some people get it and some don't. Just as some folk are smart and some aren't. I would never chastise someone to their face, but damn, I'll have my opinions just as I do with any other occurrence in life.
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" was about. As far as this girl goes and grief, eh. She hardly knew my brother. Her dad was his bf from HS. He moved down to FLA and stayed with them for a couple of months where he became friendly with the daughter. About a year later they were neighbors for another couple of months. Don't get me wrong, they were friendly, but that relationship was a peripheral event. She's being sweet, but I think it begins and ends there.
