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A question I have regarding a home defense weapon on a budget. A good weapon for home defense would seem to be something like a Taurus or Rossi .38 special revolver, either with a 4" barrel or even a "snub." I am curious about that vs choosing a semi-auto.
The thing is I am perhaps neurotic about that I don't like the idea of weapons being "cocked" and "live" yet at the same time in the event you need to act, you want your weapon to be able to be put into action quickly. To that end, it would seem that something like a .22 semi-automatic rifle (I'll get to semi-auto PISTOLS in a bit) would be a poor choice for a quick-action situation because you would have to c`o-c'k the lever to load the chamber and have it ready (and some I've seen you have to work that first bullet it, apparently they need cleaning?), but then if it was a false alarm, now it's a loaded and cocked weapon. Yes I realize you can engage the safety, but it's still "live" and the springs are all wound up, there's no way to simply "de-c`o-c'k" it so the springs can be at a state of rest, unless you lock open the sliding mechanism, catch the loaded bullet that flies out, prevent a new bullet from loading, load in a "spent" shell for dry-firing etc, and then load the ejected non-fired bullets back into the clip or tube etc. (By the way, can we please stop censoring "c`o-c'k," that's a legitimate expression regarding guns and we're not in Sunday School here.)
On the other hand, a revolver is ready immediately the split-second you pick it up (double-action), yet even if you c`o-c'k it so it's single-action vs double-action only for it to turn out to be a false alarm you can easily de-c`o-c'k it by pulling the trigger with your thumb holding the hammer in-place and then slowly/gently working the hammer back to its resting position. With that, you're done--it's now at a state of rest, yet it's also ready for next time with no further work required.
Getting to pistols: the only semi-auto (clip-loading) pistols I've seen that have "de-cockers" seem to be the expensive ones, the ones that are 9mm Parebellium or .40 S&W etc and cost way more than a .38 Special revolver. The ones like a Ruger .380 LCP don't seem to have any de-cocking switch and/or are double-action only, and only hold 6 rounds anyway, thus not really offering any advantage vs a revolver that I can see (except smallness, in case you want to do like Rick Perry and shoot coyotes while jogging, ha ha). If that is the case, I am not understanding why people would prefer a semi-auto to a revolver for basic home defense, unless they feel they really need the 15 rounds and fast-loading clip design aspects.
As a last question: one revolver I've seen offered is apparently the first picture in this post (Mister Mills: The Basic Model .38 Special Revolver: and Self-Defense Training With It.), a Taurus 82 .38 Special with a 4" barrel, apparently it's the one used in the past by many other nations governments' police forces until the semi-autos took over. They want like $300 for it. Is that a good one for basic home defense if the revolver style is the style of choice?
A question I have regarding a home defense weapon on a budget. A good weapon for home defense would seem to be something like a Taurus or Rossi .38 special revolver, either with a 4" barrel or even a "snub." I am curious about that vs choosing a semi-auto.
The thing is I am perhaps neurotic about that I don't like the idea of weapons being "cocked" and "live" yet at the same time in the event you need to act, you want your weapon to be able to be put into action quickly. To that end, it would seem that something like a .22 semi-automatic rifle (I'll get to semi-auto PISTOLS in a bit) would be a poor choice for a quick-action situation because you would have to c`o-c'k the lever to load the chamber and have it ready (and some I've seen you have to work that first bullet it, apparently they need cleaning?), but then if it was a false alarm, now it's a loaded and cocked weapon. Yes I realize you can engage the safety, but it's still "live" and the springs are all wound up, there's no way to simply "de-c`o-c'k" it so the springs can be at a state of rest, unless you lock open the sliding mechanism, catch the loaded bullet that flies out, prevent a new bullet from loading, load in a "spent" shell for dry-firing etc, and then load the ejected non-fired bullets back into the clip or tube etc. (By the way, can we please stop censoring "c`o-c'k," that's a legitimate expression regarding guns and we're not in Sunday School here.)
You're aware that springs fatigue with cycling, not with being held in compression/tension. So a new spring held in compression for 100 years, then relaxed, will be as "new" as a one off the production line that's done the same one cycle. A semi with the current safety designs and one in the chamber is as safe if not safer than a double action revolver, unless you're leaving one chamber empty in the revolver too. You also don't need to cycle the action if you have one in the chamber of the semi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh
On the other hand, a revolver is ready immediately the split-second you pick it up (double-action), yet even if you c`o-c'k it so it's single-action vs double-action only for it to turn out to be a false alarm you can easily de-c`o-c'k it by pulling the trigger with your thumb holding the hammer in-place and then slowly/gently working the hammer back to its resting position. With that, you're done--it's now at a state of rest, yet it's also ready for next time with no further work required.
Same can be said of any hammer auto with one in the chamber that's DAO or DA/SA. In fact lets just say it, if you fill the cylinder and your timing is accurate a revolver always has one in the chamber. From a safety mechanism perspective semi's are "safer" than revolvers, a revolver relies on strength of pull and the trigger guard for safety, a semi-auto can rely on any or all of trigger safety, drop safety, grip safety, magazine safety, manual safety, strength of trigger pull, and trigger guard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh
Getting to pistols: the only semi-auto (clip-loading) pistols I've seen that have "de-cockers" seem to be the expensive ones, the ones that are 9mm Parebellium or .40 S&W etc and cost way more than a .38 Special revolver. The ones like a Ruger .380 LCP don't seem to have any de-cocking switch and/or are double-action only, and only hold 6 rounds anyway, thus not really offering any advantage vs a revolver that I can see (except smallness, in case you want to do like Rick Perry and shoot coyotes while jogging, ha ha). If that is the case, I am not understanding why people would prefer a semi-auto to a revolver for basic home defense, unless they feel they really need the 15 rounds and fast-loading clip design aspects.
Untrained or poorly trained and without a speedloader a semi is easier to load, you slap the magazine into the well and either pull the slide back or release the slide lock. At higher levels of training people can load a revolver in around the same time it takes to reload a semi, however, you can't maintain sighting as easily during reload with a revolver as a semi. One hand reloads are more difficult too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh
As a last question: one revolver I've seen offered is apparently the first picture in this post (Mister Mills: The Basic Model .38 Special Revolver: and Self-Defense Training With It.), a Taurus 82 .38 Special with a 4" barrel, apparently it's the one used in the past by many other nations governments' police forces until the semi-autos took over. They want like $300 for it. Is that a good one for basic home defense if the revolver style is the style of choice?
If it works for you then it's a good choice. What is this style you speak of? Do you consider the style of a wrench? Or the style of a Hammer? Is style the thing you look for when buying a new power drill? No? A gun is a tool, style isn't on the list of priorities any more than it would be for a power drill. You're looking for function, and that function is to put the number of rounds on target in the time period you define as necessary, for the price range you have, if that's a revolver it's good, if that's a semi-auto it's also good.
In the end, it is what you feel comfortable with, in your hand.
Get out and shoot as much as possible, ask to shoot friends guns. What feels good to you.
To me, a .22 - 500 magnum is good enough, as long as you can handle the kick or have good shot placement. (yes I'll catch crap about the .22)
Just on a side not, a guy (on a local FB page) was so happy and excited he bought a Sig Scorpion, swore up and down he would never sell it....$1000+ down the drain...he could not stand the way it felt of shot when he went to the range...
Just on a side not, a guy (on a local FB page) was so happy and excited he bought a Sig Scorpion, swore up and down he would never sell it....$1000+ down the drain...he could not stand the way it felt of shot when he went to the range...
That happens a lot, and there's not a lot you can do about it if it happens, unless you want to spend a lot of money customizing it, and even then it might not work. All for the want of trying before buying.
My first gun was a revolver, a S&W 686, so I am still a revolver man at heart.
I think for a beginner, a revolver comes naturally and easier to understand. I have many female friends, including my wife, when they first started shooting they preferred revolver. So if you have wife/ daughters at home and will be using the same firearm, let them try BOTH the revolver and a semiauto to see which one they shoot better. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of women who prefer semiautos, some even carry 45s.
Mechanically, I think either the revolver or the semi will work reliably if you buy quality firearms. As average shooters, we don't shoot enough to wear out the mechanical parts unless you shoot 10,000 to 100,000 rounds every year. The important part in deciding between the two is, IMO, which one comes more "intuitive" in your hand? In case of emergency, if you can remember safety up, safety off down, chamber is loaded or do I need to rack the slide? Do I c'o'c'k the gun or no need to? Gun is too light/ too heavy, where did I put my gun? Is 6 rounds enough? All these factors go into your decision in selecting a self defense firearm. The last thing you need to worry about is will it go bang when I pull the trigger?
Do not try to buy a home defense gun that double duty as concealed carry gun, especially if you are a beginner or have family members who are. Small guns are very difficult to shoot accurately and is very unpleasant to shoot. Guess what? If it is unpleasant to shoot, eventually you will get lazy to go to the range to practice, thus poor shooting, and the cycle repeat.
For revolvers, I'd like to see you get good quality used revolver. For example, the S&W model 10 is a K frame .38 spcl that can be had for little money. I picked up mine at the local gun store for $220. Ruger GP100 is another good choice. For semiauto, there are many name brand used previously by police department now you can buy for little money like the Glock or S&W M&P series, or my personal favorites, the Sig Sauer older P-series.
You want a dedicated home defense weapon? Go get a 12 gauge pump.
I understand the wariness of having a chambered semi-auto, but do you have children in your home? Is it just you, or you and an adult? If it is just you or another adult, i think you will become more comfortable with the concept if you take some additional training or trigger time. I keep a Glock 23 40 in my nightstand, chambered, it has never bothered me. If kids are involved I understand the increased concern. The Beretta 92/96 platform has a great safety decocker, so does the HK USP although they are not cheap new. I just think that semi-autos are they way to go, but to each their own.
Also, don't get a 22 semi-auto, they are notoriously finicky with ammo and jam frequently.
By being concerned about having a round chambered in a home defense firearm, to me it shows that you are a cautious & responsible person, but not very familiar with the mechanics of modern firearms, or comfortable in handling them.
If you're going to have one in the home for defensive purposes, it's incumbent upon you to be both comfortable & familiar with handling it and shooting it, as if you have to in a dire situation, you're going to be very stressed.
I have a carry a pistol & keep some hidden away in the house that are loaded. I don't have kids or other people in my home often, and any loaded, unsecured firearm in my house is at least in a holster that covers the trigger area. Under these conditions, I am not concerned that the muzzle of those loaded firearms may be pointed right at me from just a couple feet away.
So my suggestion is to take on or more classes from a certified firearms instructor, get familiar & comfortable with handling revolvers, pistols & some long guns, & then make an educated decision as to which would be the first one (many of us end up having a variety of defensive firearms) to buy. In the meanwhile, you can save up $$ so that "inexpensive" isn't one of your primary requirements.
I've had a lot of different pistols over the years, some relatively expensive ($1500+) but these days I'm a big fan of the Springfield Armory XDm line, partially because of the organic safety features they have.
A revolver for home defense and someone not that acquainted with guns is a great idea. A 38 special is easier to use and most times has less things to watch such as safety's slides, mags ect. A revolver is also much less prone to any kind of jamming then a semi. Its a good gun design and has reached its zenith in development. They have not made any real changes in a Revolver in many many years, not in design, sure some plastic has been added and other cosmetic things but the design has not been changed. Your choices of a Rossi and Taurus both make fine budget wheel guns. I have never owned a Rossi wheel gun but have had several Taurus and they were all great. Gun snobs will tell you not but that is just the snob in them not any real fact based rational. As far as one in the chamber that is up to you. Don't let someone tell you your wrong, a gun with out a round in the chamber is much better than no gun in the home if you need one. If you listen to others rant you will hear how far from your bed is the just right distance bla bla bla. All you can do is to learn and prepare to your comfort level. If you don't feel comfortable with a round in the chamber than don't keep your gun that way. Some people don't feel comfortable with a gun unlocked or not in a safe, I would say its better to have a gun in a safe than no gun at all. If you need it and can not get to it fast enough hind sight is 2020. someone can knock you in the head as your carrying a sack of bread from Wally world into your garage, you can not foresee all the contingencies, and the idea roving band of hoods will start to kick in your door is so unlikely its about as smart as worrying about zombies. Not saying doors don't get kicked in but I think you have better odds of winning the lotto than that happening. some Gun nuts are very paranoid. LOL I know I am one of them.
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