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I tried both the compensated and non-comp. models, and found the kickback to be much stronger with the non. Also, I sort of like the flame shooting from the top of the gun!
Compensated pistols are not for serious use. They are for games not survival. Tell me how that flame shooting from the top of your pistol allows you to keep your eyes on the front sight and on the threat?
Okay guys, I've decided on the G22c. My brother is ordering it for me. Now to research places to get trained...
You would have gained more and saved $$ had you reversed that process. Obtaining training by a well qualified instructor before purchasing the firearm would likely have helped you make a wiser choice in Glock models.
Compensated pistols are not for serious use. They are for games not survival. Tell me how that flame shooting from the top of your pistol allows you to keep your eyes on the front sight and on the threat?
That's an overstatement really. It's not ideal, but it's still entirely possible to use effectively for defense.
Compensated pistols are not for serious use. They are for games not survival. Tell me how that flame shooting from the top of your pistol allows you to keep your eyes on the front sight and on the threat?
I used one for "business" and trained for hundreds of hours, light, dark and everywhere in between without a problem using a compensated pistol. Combat handgun techniques happen too fast to take time to focus on the front sight. It's more important to hold the gun right; the aim eventually becomes instinctive and it doesn't matter if there are flames comming out the top of the gun.
Thanks for all the imput on my first gun choice! I do plan to become proficient with it; for me to do this I need to be comfortable shooting it. This is my priority right now. As I gain confidence perhaps another gun will make sense for me, for 'survival' purposes. It's not like a person can only have one gun...
yes, the addiction will take hold almost immediately, trust me.. I started in September and am up to four so far and there will be a fifth by Christmas, or maybe this weekend
Let me clarify my statment about compensated guns not being for serious use but for games.
I did not say it was not possible to use compensated pistols in serious situations. However, those looking to purchase pistols for primary defense tools, be the intended use professional or personal, are doing themselves a disservice to choose/purchase a compensated pistol for that specific use.
There are a number of reasons, only one of which is the "cool factor" of the big flame shooting out the top. What pistol is ideal for IPSC in controlling recoil with custom loads in the "open" division does not translate to the best defense tool. It is possible for injury to occur if ammunition compatible with compensated pistols fails to be used. Even then there is no guarantee that metal shavings will not become projectiles back to the operator or to others on the training line.
Chango wrote: "Combat handgun techniques happen too fast to take time to focus on the front sight."
With all due respect to your "hundreds of hours" of training, the above is indeed, a FALSE statement.
While a given situation may require a shooting position that will not allow aquisition of the front sight (such as when one needs to shoot from retention), this is certainly not the case when a threat is at a distance far enough that the operator may to hold the firearm with one's arms extended and not be in the immediate danger of the pistol may be taken away by the threat.
seastar311, feel free to contact me off thread and I am only too happy to give you the contact info. for a well qualified firearms instructor in Illinois. All firearms instructors are not created equal and few have made the effort to employ the differences between teaching women and men to shoot in their mantra.
Congratulations in taking the first step. Below is a link I hope you find helpful. Before you become comfortable shooting your firearm you need to become comfortable handling it and have the safety rules ingrained into your mind as well as your muscle memory.
Chango wrote: "Combat handgun techniques happen too fast to take time to focus on the front sight."
With all due respect to your "hundreds of hours" of training, the above is indeed, a FALSE statement.
NOT false
Sight placement is indeed important, but that is the benefit of "hundreds of hours of training". Sight placement becomes natural with practice and eventually you won't even be looking for one, unless you are shooting at long range. It's the same with subgun training. Your tac light shows where your bullets are gonna go. You aren't trying to get a good sight picture in CQB, and if you are, you are wasting valuable 1/4 seconds in a life or death situation. If you are well trained you won't NEED it; your gun goes to the same position each time and your sights are aligned without the need to think about it.
As far as the flash being distracting, trust me... flash bangs are going off, other team members will be shooting and or yelling and the last thing you would be paying attention to will be the two little jets comming of the top of the pistol. More likely you will be cursing the need for failure drills... An MP5 does a much better job than a pistol at putting lots of bullets where you want them.
But to be fair, the average joe isn't gonna be shooting like that, and I can see how shooting a ported weapon can be "distracting" to the unintiated. But the decrease in muzzle climb is worth it for the fast follow-up shots in my opinion, especially when the extra flash is a non-issue.
As far as weapon retention goes...if someone is trying to take your gun away from you, the last thing you should be worried about is getting burned.
Sight placement is indeed important, but that is the benefit of "hundreds of hours of training". Sight placement becomes natural with practice and eventually you won't even be looking for one, unless you are shooting at long range. It's the same with subgun training. Your tac light shows where your bullets are gonna go. You aren't trying to get a good sight picture in CQB, and if you are, you are wasting valuable 1/4 seconds in a life or death situation. If you are well trained you won't NEED it; your gun goes to the same position each time and your sights are aligned without the need to think about it.
As far as the flash being distracting, trust me... flash bangs are going off, other team members will be shooting and or yelling and the last thing you would be paying attention to will be the two little jets comming of the top of the pistol. More likely you will be cursing the need for failure drills... An MP5 does a much better job than a pistol at putting lots of bullets where you want them.
But to be fair, the average joe isn't gonna be shooting like that, and I can see how shooting a ported weapon can be "distracting" to the unintiated. But the decrease in muzzle climb is worth it for the fast follow-up shots in my opinion, especially when the extra flash is a non-issue.
As far as weapon retention goes...if someone is trying to take your gun away from you, the last thing you should be worried about is getting burned.
Chango, congratulations of doing a great job at twisting my post to suit yourself.
The post to which I responded was from a soon to be 1st-time pistol owner. I kept my comments applicable to her situation. Your diatribe based on L.E. weapons, subguns, and teams fail to apply to the poster and further reveal the short comings of the training you have received.
I agree with your point about sight placement becoming natural...because indeed it does, eventually. However, it does not mean one is not focused on the front sight; it just means that one doesn't constantly have to think about it because it has become a natural habit. This is not something the poster about her compensated G22 is anywhere close to attaining. And, to suggest to her that if she needs to defend herself that knowing where her shots will go by using her front sight is not important, and won't even happen, well that, in my opinion, is very bad, even irresponsible advice.
Unlike law enforcement, who have miserable hit ratio's on the street, the average citizen will be held legally, financially, and morally accountable for the terminal resting place of every round that leaves the chamber of his/her firearm. To suggest that a shooter should not know where that round will go and that front sight placement is not important (CQB was not a qualifier in your original statments), is false, and even worse, irresponsible to encourage.
Perhaps in your job you are not to be held responsible for collateral injuries/death of innocent bystanders. However, the average citizen, in court and out, will pay for such negligence.
The "failure drill" discussion is a bit advanced for the O.P.'s topic. However, no I don't curse failure drills, they are an important part of training that many fail to master smoothly.
The "teams" and "MP5" comments are also just silly for this particular thread. But, glad you had a chance to use your "machisimo". So you get to carry full auto; bully for you. If I seem bored you are right, that you had to even pull that one out to defend your earlier post caught me somewhere between a laugh and a yawn. How predictable. I bet you hang out on GLOCKTLK and AR15 forums too don't you? The MP5 has nothing to do with GLOCK (supposedly the topic), the average citizen' self defense weapon, or the reality of firearms application outside of the narrowed blinders of L.E. firearms training.
If the need for something more than a pistol is required the next logical firearm is a rifle caliber and not a full auto pistol caliber platform. Of course, if you are not training for accuracy but to just spray and pray with your subgun, while depending solely on your "tac-light", I'm glad your department is not using calibers capable of better penetration than the .45ACP! If this is truly what the instructors at your L.E. academy teach it is yet another one of many all too often pitiful statements on the condition of L.E. firearms training programs.
In an attempt to tie this post back to the original thread of GLOCK and to seastar311's choice: it is my opinion that if one must choose a compensated pistol (for personal self-defense) because it reduces the recoil to a manageable level, then the individual has chosen more caliber than he/she is ready to handle. The better choice would have been to choose a more manageable caliber to begin with, in an uncompensated pistol, in this specific case, a G17 or G19.
Though the internet is full or the caliber war threads there is no "magic bullet" when it comes to handguns for civilian self-defense options. Truely, as one of my instructors reminds his students, a handgun is a weak and ineffetive weapon. Shot placement is paramount. Good training, continued training is the only way to aquire consistent shotplacement through obtaining an instinctive natural point of aim. When the fertilizer hits the fan, one will not rise to the occasion, but will instead, default to the level of his/her training.
I hope seastar311 seeks out well qualfied instruction.
Chango, you as well need to seek out qualified instruction, outside of that which is offered by your department/agency for "free". From your posts and admitted minimal "hundreds of hours" it appears as though your firearms training jouney is still has quite a long road ahead. Good luck with that and stay safe out there.
Last edited by lifelongMOgal; 11-23-2009 at 11:08 AM..
Chango, congratulations of doing a great job at twisting my post to suit yourself.
The post to which I responded was from a soon to be 1st-time pistol owner. I kept my comments applicable to her situation. Your diatribe based on L.E. weapons, subguns, and teams fail to apply to the poster and further reveal the short comings of the training you have received.
I agree with your point about sight placement becoming natural...because indeed it does, eventually. However, it does not mean one is not focused on the front sight; it just means that one doesn't constantly have to think about it because it has become a natural habit. This is not something the poster about her compensated G22 is anywhere close to attaining. And, to suggest to her that if she needs to defend herself that knowing where her shots will go by using her front sight is not important, and won't even happen, well that, in my opinion, is very bad, even irresponsible advice.
Unlike law enforcement, who have miserable hit ratio's on the street, the average citizen will be held legally, financially, and morally accountable for the terminal resting place of every round that leaves the chamber of his/her firearm. To suggest that a shooter should not know where that round will go and that front sight placement is not important (CQB was not a qualifier in your original statments), is false, and even worse, irresponsible to encourage.
Perhaps in your job you are not to be held responsible for collateral injuries/death of innocent bystanders. However, the average citizen, in court and out, will pay for such negligence.
The "failure drill" discussion is a bit advanced for the O.P.'s topic. However, no I don't curse failure drills, they are an important part of training that many fail to master smoothly.
The "teams" and "MP5" comments are also just silly for this particular thread. But, glad you had a chance to use your "machisimo". So you get to carry full auto; bully for you. If I seem bored you are right, that you had to even pull that one out to defend your earlier post caught me somewhere between a laugh and a yawn. How predictable. I bet you hang out on GLOCKTLK and AR15 forums too don't you? The MP5 has nothing to do with GLOCK (supposedly the topic), the average citizen' self defense weapon, or the reality of firearms application outside of the narrowed blinders of L.E. firearms training.
If the need for something more than a pistol is required the next logical firearm is a rifle caliber and not a full auto pistol caliber platform. Of course, if you are not training for accuracy but to just spray and pray with your subgun, while depending solely on your "tac-light", I'm glad your department is not using calibers capable of better penetration than the .45ACP! If this is truly what the instructors at your L.E. academy teach it is yet another one of many all too often pitiful statements on the condition of L.E. firearms training programs.
In an attempt to tie this post back to the original thread of GLOCK and to seastar311's choice: it is my opinion that if one must choose a compensated pistol (for personal self-defense) because it reduces the recoil to a manageable level, then the individual has chosen more caliber than he/she is ready to handle. The better choice would have been to choose a more manageable caliber to begin with, in an uncompensated pistol, in this specific case, a G17 or G19.
Though the internet is full or the caliber war threads there is no "magic bullet" when it comes to handguns for civilian self-defense options. Truely, as one of my instructors reminds his students, a handgun is a weak and ineffetive weapon. Shot placement is paramount. Good training, continued training is the only way to aquire consistent shotplacement through obtaining an instinctive natural point of aim. When the fertilizer hits the fan, one will not rise to the occasion, but will instead, default to the level of his/her training.
I hope seastar311 seeks out well qualfied instruction.
Chango, you as well need to seek out qualified instruction, outside of that which is offered by your department/agency for "free". From your posts and admitted minimal "hundreds of hours" it appears as though your firearms training jouney is still has quite a long road ahead. Good luck with that and stay safe out there.
Funny, I'm not impressed with you either.
The point of my argument: Ported is not necessarily bad, nor are ported guns just "toys" or porting done to "look cool" . It was done for a purpose... and like most thing pertaining to guns it is a compromise. In reality, it comes down to preference.
I like ported weapons, Mr fussy britches here doesn't.
I'm also a full civie now and have been for several years, if anyone cares to know. I do miss guns with "happy switches" though.
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