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Nothing against stacylee, but the ones who go 50 are the ones who contribute to the accidents. I understand the paranoia and claustrophobia, but if you're scared, speed up and get it over with...
Driving slow can be just as dangerous as speeding.
All good theories, esp. the ripple effect. However, I can't help but notice that the bottleneck is still a little plausible. I'll give you that it's not directly responsible, but still, going from three or four lanes to two will have somewhat of an effect on the traffic flow.
It's a little of column A and a little of column B. I know they're talking about building a third artery to the peninsula, but I'd love to see where it would go without putting folks completely out of the way. I think the biggest problem was that folks shot down the tax raise that would help the new interstate.
Having worked at the smart traffic center for nearly 5 years, I can tell you that the number one reason for "major" traffic backups coming from the north are the overheight trucks. They get flagged and weeded out and turned toward the monitor merrimack but this process takes time. Usually takes about 10 mins to complete this process during which time all traffic is stopped. Traffic can back up to amazing distances in 10 minutes. This whole process happens about 2-3 times a day. Following a close second is simply traffic volume. There is more passing through the tunnel than it was designed to handle. Add in an accident or two, which is common, and you can see how congestion is now an all day event. They've tried placing heavy fines on the truckers who violate the height rules and cause traffic to back up, but this has done little to nothing to deter them.
My guess is (I 'tunnel it' 5 days a week) that the rising sun hits your eyes in the morning if you are going eastbound, the occasional state trooper at the Mallory down ramp or the other trooper on the right side of the westbound tunnel entrance could hamper your speed. Also people are looking up at the 'low clearance' signs (remember returning trucks have less clearance !!) to see how many inches remain on the semi's that are in front of you, or they didn't fill up with gas and know if they are low on fuel, driving slower will save gas. The view of 'in and out' bound ships in the fog is beautiful and why is "that Navy helicopter always pulling some sort of 'sled' through the water". If I drive slow enough, will I see the man in the little glass booth in the middle of the 1.1 mile tunnel appear? Why does the signal on my FM radio go dead but mycell phone gets better? Last month they were 'testing the tunnel gates/doors ????
Obviously I have a lot of think time as I creep along through the HRBT
I don't know exactly how to explain this, but traffic designers know that most drivers slow down when it's perceived in essence that the road is narrowing. For example, when a road is designed with a median with trees or with landscaped areas on the side of the road that appear to bulge into the road, people slow down. They are sometimes included in the lists of so-called traffic calming devices. A tunnel is the ultimate traffic calming device because it encloses people, making them feel like they are crowded in. It's natural then to slow down since visually it feels like the driver does not have as much room between himself and cars going the other way and between himself and a wall that obviously could cause great damage. Sorry-but you are battling psychology and rush hour!
I agree with those who cite the general nervousness a lot of people experience going through a dark, enclosed space. Believe it or not, tunnel phobia is not uncommon. Passing is also illegal inside tunnels, so if someone slows to a crawl in front of you, there's not much you can do about it.
Another factor, I believe, is that there are many crossroads one can use to get around the Tidewater area if one is not crossing water, but there are only a few access points to get over or under major bodies of water. Hence, one can skip Va. Beach Blvd or 64 or Princess Anne Rd and take alternate routes, but there are only a few ways to get from Norfolk to Portsmouth.
I also blame the standardization of military work hours. When I lived in Norfolk, it seemed like the entire naval base emptied out at the same time, and all of these people were leaving from the base, heading down Hampton Blvd, and going in the Midtown Tunnel, or alternately, going through the downtown tunnel.
The Tidewater traffic is some of the worst I've experienced, outside NoVa and DC. I'm blaming most of it on all the water bodies that have to be crossed.
I drove the Downtown tunnel (don't have to use them on a daily basis) on Saturday and I paid attention to how I drove it. Before you get in the tunnel there is a 35 mph sign..??? I did drive 55 because traffic was moving but everyone put on brakes at various times. The tunnel also curves and this could be a reason why.
I am NOT a Sunday driver, but in my 'older' age I have noticed that I am a much more cautious driver than I was at 25 or 35.
I noticed too that the MMBT just 'feels' safer and makes it easier to maintain a good speed. Could be that it is newer than the others.
I totally agree with htlong, people are just afraid of driving fast in an enclosed area which causes a ripple affect. It doesn't make any since how bad traffic is going throught the HRBT and the Downtown tunnel. On the rainy day you might as well forget about it.
Location: Uniquely Individual Villages of the Megalopolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_is_tiger_woods
First of all, I extend warm greetings to a fellow Texan...PChildres, thank you for your input...and to answer your question, no I am not talking about the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel was at one point in time listed as one of the engineering wonders of the world. The Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel (the bridge-tunnel complex of which I speak) was never really considered an engineering marvel. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel is traveled nowhere near as much as the HRBT. Now, I believe every word you say about Houston traffic. I was born and raised in San Angelo (about three and a half hours northwest of San Antonio, if you were unaware of San Angelo's whereabouts), and my family and I have been to Houston a number of times. Other than personal experiences with Houston traffic, I have heard a number of recent traffic horror stories in Houston. It also doesn't help that Houston is home to one of the nation's top ten worst traffic traps (the Interstate 10-610 interchange). So I feel your pain...maybe not as much as you do, but I have personally experienced what you currently experience. However, cities like Houston, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Atlanta are burgeoning metropolises. People from all over the world are flocking to these cities seeking great jobs, cheap housing (the main exception there would be Los Angeles), and the easy opportunity to realize the American dream, so hellish traffic in those cities is just something that comes with the territory and is easily understood. As for this area...I can't recall ever reading, witnessing or hearing about the great and plentiful opportunities the Hampton Roads region provides (because, in my opinion, it doesn't). Furthermore, the population for the local metropolitan statistical area (MSA) is just a little over 1.7 million...the city of Houston alone has a population of just over 2.1 million (in terms of population, it is the nation's fourth largest behind NYC, LA, and Chi-Town), and its MSA is home to 5.5 million residents. So, how does an area so small (in comparison to other metro areas) have such confusing traffic? The traffic isn't bad...it just shouldn't happen for an area this size. And if it does happen, then it shouldn't be as exaggerated as it currently is. And the traffic doesn't really flow...it has epileptic seizures. It comes to a dead stop, then it gets up to about 40-50 mph, and after you do that for about three seconds you come to a complete stop again, then you lather, rinse, and repeat until the end of the tunnel.
So, I ask the question once more...what makes traffic at the HRBT so mind-boggling?
One part of the problem is that the population counts of census figures don't tell the whole story for Hampton Roads. I don't believe so many of all those military personnel are in local counts but included in their original areas, hence you have the largest Navy base in the world and many other installations strewn all over. (Aside from that traffic in Hampton near Langely AFB or NASA can be really bad plus the Northrop Grumman Shipyars in NN. The latter is the largest private employer in the State. People commute from NC to it)
Another is the component of the always present visiting population from up north, the road system throughout HR is continuously fed thru the CBBT that's already been cited. Traffic coming in, that' s thru traffic from up north, the Delmarva peninsula that links MD,DEL, NJ and NY and beyond.
In winter it adds but also in summer further north people take it to avoid DC plus there of course is the 64 feeders. IN summer then add quite a bit more with the locals, the military, the floating populations, the visitors (business etc). More people pull more, family, whatever.
Consequently you've got a lot more people in the area all the time than just the 1.7 million the census counts as local residents in the HR region. Probably by a couple million more as it ebbs and swells throughout the year. As you can see on these blogs, and the forums can attest, there is a constant flow of plenty of people in and out of the area all the time. Odd for a place that's so little well known by name??
What the short end of the stick type classif for HR does, is apparently not prepare the newcomers to reality of life in it. Namely, big city traffic without feeling like you're in a big city. It is contradictory. One has to remember that according to wikipedia, The Hampton Roads area has the largest concentration of military bases and facilities of any metropolitan area in the world. Virginia Beach is the most populous city in the commonwealth, with Norfolk and Chesapeake second and third, respectively. Norfolk forms the urban core of this metropolitan area, which is home to over 1.6 million people and the world's largest naval base. The Hampton Roads region has also grown due to government and military expansion.
The mixture of inexperienced tunnel drivers and those unfamiliar has been unbearable for years. It's like coming off the Goebbels and Verrazano Bridges in NY Staten Island linking NJ to the Garden State Expwy and the NJ Turnpike. It's the same thing people slow because NY is horrible about posting proper signs and directions.
People from NY have complicated minds and when they get to places that make sense they dont' know what to do!! (Just one observation).
Count all the different out of state tags in the area when stuck in traffic, it's not a remote area secluded from the world like people always think of ole Virginny!!
Last edited by StuyTownRefugee; 12-12-2007 at 09:41 PM..
Location: Uniquely Individual Villages of the Megalopolis
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Just imagine what it was like before the tolls were removed from the HRBT and they were building the MMBT. There was the James River Bridge and they removed tolls from that. Now I understand the new Transit Auth might want to reinstate some tolls to finance more improvements.
IN NY and NJ they are toll cities, everywhere you go, constantly.
Location: Uniquely Individual Villages of the Megalopolis
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I'll bet at least some people slow when nearing the bridge tunnel or on the bridge before the tunnel bc they are in anticipation of having to stop and pay a toll before proceeding.
That is very commonplace in most places these folks arrive from. There are plenty of tolls around Richmond too by the way. But Northerners are very accustomed to having to slow and look for toll paying directons, EZ Pass etc. Cash Lanes and they don't see any as of yet anyway.
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