moving to PA from SF Bay area.... (Philadelphia, Reading: transplants, salons)

[baychic]

I know that PA is not the SF Bay area. With that said, we understand that by moving from CA to PA we will have to sacrifice alot. We are tired of the high cost of living, and want to be closer to family (who live in Lemoyne). ALL of the real estate is so much more reasonable, so I feel like that part is a win no matter where we end up. We like the country, as long as its not TOO far out (15 min max). We are not religious, and appreciate diversity and culture.

I am a paralegal and my husband will have a job when he arrives in Hershey (lucky!). We are in our early 30s with no kids (but will in the future). We like urban culture, but are willing to have a more small town feel. We visit Lemoyne often, but it seems a little "old" and box-store-y for us. Hershey is too vanilla, and Harrisburg is flat-out ghetto (I'm sorry, but its true). Here are the things that we would like nearby (don't have to be walkable, but close):

1) Coffee shop (and I don't mean DD or Starbucks)

2) Healthfood/Organic groceries or farmers market

3) Movie Theater

4) Some fun take out options (Indian/Chinese/Pizza)

5) Some sense of community and diversity

Is this too much of a stretch? Are we doomed to exist in box-store suburbia?

[ki0eh]

One aspect of PA that isn't always evident to the casual visitor is that the neighborhood can really be very different upon driving around the corner. You will probably want to look around in a few enclaves to see if there is at least enough sense of taste and character for you to get by, bearing in mind that any of DC, Baltimore, and Philadelphia are a two-hour weekend drive (or train to Philly) away.

The Midtown neighborhood of Harrisburg isn't located where most folks would casually drive through but does seem to be where hipsters (and yes tastes like that are "hipster" in central PA ) come to from outside the area. It's walking distance to the Capitol Complex and its surrounding clutch of law firms and lobbyists, and the "Restaurant Row" of 2nd Street. Maybe it's not San Francisco on the Susquehanna but it's not "ghetto" either.

I do know a couple of Western USA natives who moved to the area for professional jobs in Hershey wound up in Lancaster City (45 min-1 hr one way commute). It's not unknown to rail commute to downtown Harrisburg from Lancaster, but the Lancaster train station isn't in the area most attractive to transplant residents. Elizabethtown is another town in Lancaster County that some transplants are happy with, most aren't too happy with the rest of Lancaster suburbs.

Carlisle is another area with some diversity and interaction with the outside world but it's close to an hour drive to Hershey in rush-hour traffic due to poor design of highways creating numerous choke points. Mechanicsburg Borough has some character and a few locally owned shops and won't be as far to drive to Hershey, it's also fairly close to the Harrisburg area Wegmans. Both Carlisle Area and Mechanicsburg Area schools rate a bit better than middling, by contrast with Harrisburg City which is about the worst in all of PA. Cumberland Valley schools rank better but that's largely the box-store vanilla suburbs that share Mechanicsburg's postal address.

Camp Hill Borough also has a few local stores on Market St., around the corner from the mall area (I can't think of any "box stores" in Lemoyne itself, this would be the closest chain hell and probably where you're thinking of, Lemoyne does have the http://westshorefarmersmarket.com/ beside an unprepossessing strip mall, but the hill north of there is a nice pre-war neighborhood). New Cumberland Borough might be worth a look too. (A "borough" in PA is a small legally incorporated town.)

Right next to Hershey, Hummelstown Borough has some character and community spirit, and some locally owned shops (many of these are refugees from vanilla wasteland in Hershey), and for the future, decently rated Lower Dauphin schools.

[Flamingo13]

I think the previous post was very well thought-out and accurate from my experience visiting there many times (husband is originally from Lebanon).

[baychic]

wow that was quite a thorough reply! I really appreciate it. I have lived in some truly beautiful areas that have fit my lifestyle, and The Harrisburg area is the first that I have considered but felt some hesitation. I guess you never know until you move! I look forward to reading other replies....

[teachbeach]

Check out the most northern parts of Lancaster County. You'll find a quaint downtown in Lancaster itself, a vibrant city life (culture, hometown baseball, cool restaurants). Then there's Route 30 which can be a gridlock (but nothing like California) of shopping mecca and people trying to get in and out of town. Huge mall, lots of outlet stores, furniture stores and the big box (WalMart, Kmart, Costco, Target) peppered in with formula restaurants.

Northern Lancaster offers Lititz (walkable downtown, good schools, great proximity to hospital and just a quick trip to Route 30.) Hempfield Township or Centerville, Manheim areas. Sandwiched in between Route 30 and the Turnpike, there are tons of back roads to Hershey and Harrisburg.

Good luck!

[mea5043]

We are absolutely not doomed to big-box suburbia, and Harrisburg is NOT ghetto if you're in the right neighborhood. Yes hipsters live in Midtown, but they're much more plentiful in San Fran! Midtown is great, there's the Broad Street Market that has several vendors that include Amish butchers/farmers (they're the best!), Harrisburg Area Community College just renovated an old building in Midtown and has a huge variety of classes available, there are plenty of coffee shops, restaurants, beauty salons, and other priceless stores you can't find in a strip mall. There is a place called the Midtown Cinema that plays mostly indie/foreign films but a short drive to the East or West shores (in the city you have your pick) can get you to a multi-plex cinema. From my apartment to Lemoyne it takes 5 minutes by car, 5 dollars by taxi, or there are 3 bus routes that run into that part of the West Shore.

If you decide on the small town/rural areas, I'd look at Carlisle, Gettysburg, or Hershey. They are all small (pop 10-25K) towns that have diverse central business districts, not to mention some really great architecture and cultural history.

I'm also a recent transplant to Harrisburg, live in Midtown, haven't had any problems thus far when it comes to crime, suspicious activity, etc. I walk to work, and almost every day I'm greeted by a dog walking neighbor, delivery driver, shop owner, etc. It's a very small-town neighborhood feel in a reasonably large city.

Best of luck on your decision, maybe I'll see you in Midtown someday soon!

[kanling]

Great. Another Californian who can't stand California and then wants to move to someplace in PA that is just like California. Duh.

[DowntownHarrisburg]

Originally Posted by baychic

don't have to be walkable

If you want to have multiple dining / entertainment / shopping / cultural / employment options within a 15-minute walk, downtown and midtown Harrisburg are really your best options. Downtown is more rental- and entertainment-centric, while midtown has more permanent owners and independent shops. Think of downtown as martini lounges and outdoor festivals, and midtown as coffee shops and independent retailers. It will be very easy to find rentals at all price points in both parts of the city, and neither is a bad bet.

Carlisle is a good runner-up, as long as you don't mind a > 1-hour commute to Hershey each way during rush hour. As ki0eh said, Lancaster may be worth looking into, and your commute should only be about 45-60 minutes each way during rush hour.

Unfortunately, if you've already ruled out Harrisburg as "ghetto", then I'm not sure that you'll find what you're looking for. Have you spent any time in the city, or are you just getting an early start on the local "east shore vs west shore" mentality?

[DowntownHarrisburg]

Originally Posted by mea5043

I'm also a recent transplant to Harrisburg, live in Midtown, haven't had any problems thus far when it comes to crime, suspicious activity, etc. I walk to work, and almost every day I'm greeted by a dog walking neighbor, delivery driver, shop owner, etc. It's a very small-town neighborhood feel in a reasonably large city.

I really like the way Harrisburg is taking shape. Ten years ago downtown did a complete 180 from the Second Street of years past, giving us the multitude of entertainment, dining, and performance options we have now. Midtown has been on the receiving end of nothing short of miracle work these past few years, with small merchants putting down roots and giving the whole area an eclectic, vibrant feel.

It's hard to believe that just 15 years ago, hardly anybody would visit Second Street after sundown. Today we have Privado, Molly Brannigan's, Shady's, Pep, and a dozen other venues. And barely five years ago, midtown was really struggling to reinvent itself. Today we have Midtown Scholar, Hodgepodgery, Cafe di Luna, HMAC, Mantis Gallery, and more development on the way. Uptown is next at bat, and with the right developer(s), areas like 10th & Market are just itching to take off.

Best of all, everything is within walking distance of everything else. Midtown Scholar to downtown is barely a 15-minute walk -- assuming you don't take the bike taxi (or bike yourself). History and architecture are abundant, and despite our city's and county's financial distress, there's a palpable feeling of growth and pride here.

[mea5043]

Couldn't have said it better, Floor9. I just moved from Reading for a job downtown, and I can't really think of anything negative to say about the area, just that like most cities, it's not very ideal for families since Harrisburg School District has some work to do. I think the biggest contributor to the revitalization is the attitude among city residents, at least in the Midtown and Downtown areas. Everybody is so upbeat and active in the community, something that Reading could definitely use, but nonetheless is very refreshing to see in a small old PA city. I'm sure the area surrounding will start to improve, like you said, although I wouldn't touch Allison Hill with a ten foot pole. I'd put that neighborhood in the 20-40 year revitalization plan, while uptown is more an "immediate future" investment.

As for the original post, please do explore the metro area, I struggle to find bad things to say about any community or neighborhood in the region, I just love where I live!