Ban on selling toy guns to minors in Hawaii? (sales, crimes)

[nullgeo]

Toy Guns Would Be Banned Under Proposed Hawaii Legislation | Hawaii Reporter

This brief article doesn't offer enough information for me to make a decision on the point or value of this new proposed legislation ... but I think it raises some curious questions that may reflect interestingly on contemporary Hawaiian culture. Wonder if anyone else has seen articles in greater depth on this subject -- and if so could you link them?

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Toy Guns Would Be Banned Under Proposed Hawaii Legislation | Hawaii Reporter

This brief article doesn't offer enough information for me to make a decision on the point or value of this new proposed legislation ... but I think it raises some curious questions that may reflect interestingly on contemporary Hawaiian culture. Wonder if anyone else has seen articles in greater depth on this subject -- and if so could you link them?

I can see the wisdom of banning toy guns that look like the real thing. I had toy cap pistols as a kid, but nobody would mistake them for real. WHy not just sell and make toy guns that are visually distinguishable from real ones?

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by AlohaHuey

I can see the wisdom of banning toy guns that look like the real thing. I had toy cap pistols as a kid, but nobody would mistake them for real. WHy not just sell and make toy guns that are visually distinguishable from real ones?

I'm a gun owner and a long time avid target shooter. One of my pistols is a 9mm Sig Sauer. I was astonished to find an exact replica of it recently, a working "soft BB" airgun with authentic dimensions, on sale at WalMart for under $20. From only a few feet away it looks like a real gun. Recently a serial robber was apprehended in Austin after committing a series of crimes using a plastic replica just like this.

This is the problem that needs to be addressed. Hawai'i has one of the lowest rates of gun violence in the country, and one reason is that it has for many years been one of the toughest states in which to buy a handgun. First you have to get a Permit to Acquire from the Police, and the requirements for getting that include passing a $160 "hunter safety" class or its equivalent first, then getting photographed and fingerprinted and having a background check run in case you are disqualified because of a previous felony or treatment for mental illness.

THEN you can buy a handgun, if you wish, and take possession after a 14 day waiting period. And since the hunter ed classes are given infrequently, it can easily take a couple of months to get the Permit to Acquire letter issued, and purchase, and wait, until you can actually take that gun home. Details on the process can be found here: Firearms Registration (http://www.hawaiipolice.com/topPages/gunRegistration.html - broken link)

Contrast that with a state at the other end of the gun control spectrum, Texas, where you can buy a gun, and if your background check is clean, walk out with it in less than 30 minutes. I've done it there in 15, since I'm super clean and already in their system. But I honestly do see the sense behind Hawai'i's stricter policies.

I don't believe there is any issue with toy guns that are obviously toys, like Nerf Guns and Silly Soakers in fluorescent colors, but realistic black toy guns do pose an obvious problem, because they can be easily obtained, even by felons, and used for intimidation or robbery. That partly subverts the intent of the tight control on the sale of real guns in Hawai'i. I think this bill needs to be tightened up to clamp down only on the realistic looking toys, as other states are doing. Kids can still have shoot 'em up fun without giving crooks such a handy tool for crime.

[nullgeo]

Two separate issues:
1. selling toy guns (of any kind) to minors

"The bills make it unlawful to sell a toy gun to someone under age 18 unless the buyer used false identification or appeared 18 or older." ...


2. selling realistic-looking toy guns

"Nationally, various states and cities have looked at banning sales of realistic-looking toy guns. Last year, a law went into effect in Arkansas barring the sale of toy guns that look real."

The article linked reports that issue #1 is being presented, not issue #2. This is what has me intrigued. What is the point of making it illegal for a kid to buy a toy gun -- when an adult can buy one easily, and, obviously, give to a kid to play with ... doesn't say it is illegal for a kid to have or play with a toy gun. So, is the point of the bill to make a statement against guns by discouraging the proliferation of toys? Or, is it simply a poorly worded bill, so far? Other reasons?

I support Hawaii's restrictive gun laws ... but I can't place this legislation in any category -- so I'm asking if anyone else can sort out the confusion ... seems pointless, unless it is a social statement against guns.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

I support Hawaii's restrictive gun laws ... but I can't place this legislation in any category -- so I'm asking if anyone else can sort out the confusion ... seems pointless, unless it is a social statement against guns.

As written, I think it is only the latter... a social statement against guns... and as such, I think it has no chance of passing into law.

[PacificFlights]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Two separate issues:
The article linked reports that issue #1 is being presented, not issue #2. This is what has me intrigued. What is the point of making it illegal for a kid to buy a toy gun -- when an adult can buy one easily, and, obviously, give to a kid to play with ... doesn't say it is illegal for a kid to have or play with a toy gun. So, is the point of the bill to make a statement against guns by discouraging the proliferation of toys? Or, is it simply a poorly worded bill, so far? Other reasons?

This type of law came up once before in Hawaii and was tabled because they didn't give retailer enough time to respond. That one was not due to any anti-gun feelings, or keeping fake gun from criminals, it was as this one is, parent driven.

Parents are enraged when thei kids get busted in schools and on the streets for having guns that looked real. Parents were upset that even if they tried and notbuy these for their kids, the kids themself could just waltz into a store and buy it. There was nothing a parent could do but slap their kid silly for buying it. They could not do anything to stop their kids and retailers did nothing to keep them out of the kids hands.

The idea is if they can;t sell it to the kids, many may not get hold of them and they may be able to stay out of trouble. If a parent thinks its alright, they can buy one themsslef and give it to their kid. If they dont want them having one, at least they know the stores wont be a party to violating the parents rule.

Thats whats behind this, pure and simple.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by PacificFlights

Thats whats behind this, pure and simple.

Maybe they'd have a better chance if they packaged this with the proposed bill to ban car speakers over 6 1/2" and car amps over 100 watts.

[mdand3boys]

The toy guns are already required to have a bright orange tip at the end of the barrel.
I wish this group of legislative clowns would worry more about the state's problems than toy guns and car stereos.

Bill bans pumping up car stereos - Hawaii News - Staradvertiser.com

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by PacificFlights

This type of law came up once before in Hawaii and was tabled because they didn't give retailer enough time to respond. That one was not due to any anti-gun feelings, or keeping fake gun from criminals, it was as this one is, parent driven.

Parents are enraged when thei kids get busted in schools and on the streets for having guns that looked real. Parents were upset that even if they tried and notbuy these for their kids, the kids themself could just waltz into a store and buy it. There was nothing a parent could do but slap their kid silly for buying it. They could not do anything to stop their kids and retailers did nothing to keep them out of the kids hands.

The idea is if they can;t sell it to the kids, many may not get hold of them and they may be able to stay out of trouble. If a parent thinks its alright, they can buy one themsslef and give it to their kid. If they dont want them having one, at least they know the stores wont be a party to violating the parents rule.

Thats whats behind this, pure and simple.

Well, there you go ... makes sense ... thanks ... good answer ... that's a wrap

[Tymberwulf]

Originally Posted by PacificFlights

Parents are enraged when thei kids get busted in schools and on the streets for having guns that looked real. Parents were upset that even if they tried and notbuy these for their kids, the kids themself could just waltz into a store and buy it. There was nothing a parent could do but slap their kid silly for buying it.

Back when I was a kid, I wouldn't dare do anything my parents told me not to do. Why? Because I knew they would smack the stupid right out of me if I did.

Makes you wonder, the more society tells us it is bad to spank our kids, the more society has to create new ways to stop kids from doing bad things. Kinda like they are connected or something.