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Further, think about the cultural differences between asian, native hawaiian and local hawaii vs mainland or european culture. What are the traditional cultural values of all of them? Are they traditionally opposite from eachother in reference to asian, native hawaiian and local vs mainland or european? Isn't being humble better then being a braggert? Isnt being soft spoken have more value then loud? Does the group dynamics become more important then the individual? These are just some examples? Does the squeaky wheel get the grease?
It's really interseting that there are so many layers to terms used to identify "others". I think we mainlanders are so used to those that developed within the United States to understand that not all labels are as caustic as the ones used on the mainland against African Americans, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans etc... I don't see haole as being anywhere in the same league as those types of epitaths.
And once you start seeing how the Micronesians/Marshalese are viewed by the locals, you realize that haole is just one facet in a very diverse and interesting cultural web.
I had a girlfriend in Seattle who was half Japanese and half Korean. She educated me on the whole Asian heirarchy culture. I was blown away that other Asians would just come up to her and ask "what are you". It wasn't viewed by her or the person asking the question as a slight, is was just the way their culture operates.
Hawaian culture can be very intersting and I find the more time I take to study the history of the islands, the more sense a lot of it makes.
Same here. As a person who left the U.S., in the 1990s....I pretty much accept whatever label people have for 'foreigner' or whatever else. It doesn't bother me at all.
But, I have consistently overheard or had to listen to tons of other 'foreigners' get super riled up abroad at being called a gaijin, waygook, or whatever else.
To me, it has no meaning. If I can call them 'korean' or 'japanese', they should be able to call me 'non-korean' or 'non-japanese' in their own language. I've never understood why some gaijin or waygooks get so worked up over it.
Further, think about the cultural differences between asian, native hawaiian and local hawaii vs mainland or european culture. What are the traditional cultural values of all of them? Are they traditionally opposite from eachother in reference to asian, native hawaiian and local vs mainland or european? Isn't being humble better then being a braggert? Isnt being soft spoken have more value then loud? Does the group dynamics become more important then the individual? These are just some examples? Does the squeaky wheel get the grease?
...and those cultural differences really are HUGE.
As a 'haole' in Asia...I do see 'haole' counterparts here, who come across extremely arrogant, selfish, self-centered, etc. I don't like it at all. Nor do I like to listen to it.
It repels me, and it repels people culturally who also don't like it.
On the other hand, I've heard 'haoles' in Asia, who say the exact opposite...'they don't stand up for themselves', 'they need to be more assertive', 'they need to say F-off once in awhile'...on and on.
To me, I find that things are way more productive and better if people just work with each other, be nice to each other, etc...without the "I did this" and "I did that"..and "LOOK at ME!"
Same here. As a person who left the U.S., in the 1990s....I pretty much accept whatever label people have for 'foreigner' or whatever else. It doesn't bother me at all.
But, I have consistently overheard or had to listen to tons of other 'foreigners' get super riled up abroad at being called a gaijin, waygook, or whatever else.
To me, it has no meaning. If I can call them 'korean' or 'japanese', they should be able to call me 'non-korean' or 'non-japanese' in their own language. I've never understood why some gaijin or waygooks get so worked up over it.
Political correctness and ridged thinking of truth and Manifest destiny are ingrained into mainland culture. But every culture has its benefits and liabilities.
[quote=Grassyknoll;39062251] Hawaian culture can be very intersting and I find the more time I take to study the history of the islands, the more sense a lot of it makes.
Yes i agree, i love your attitude. One has to be willing to be part of to understand it. Hawaii culture is wonderful.
Ok im going to be quiet right now. I really don't want to dominate this thread.
After living here for 4 years now I agree with the OP with a couple points to add:
1. I've NEVER heard anyone that was not Caucasian called Haole. Same as the other poster mentioned, the derogatory version of the word is akin to negative slang for other races on the mainland. But as Hawaiian by Heart mentioned, the word has dual meaning. I have heard is spoken in an almost affectionate way. In my limited experience, Haole is always used as a term to describe a Caucasian. But depending on how it's stated it can be positive or negative.
2. Asians from the mainland are assumed to be local, and get a free pass on a whole ton of social graces that are only cautiously granted to haoles. Just the way it is.
It is only derogatory when "stupid" or "f'n" is in front of Haole. It is the same as Pake, Portagee, Kanaka, Popolo, etc.; it is the word in front of the name that matters.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer
I 100% definitely agree with that!
I'm non-phased by it as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melaniej65
It is only derogatory when "stupid" or "f'n" is in front of Haole. It is the same as Pake, Portagee, Kanaka, Popolo, etc.; it is the word in front of the name that matters.
Bingo! Replace any of those with a mainland, non-offensive label such as Cannuck, Okie, Mexican, Texan, Californian, New Yorker etc... and the inoffensive becomes offensive.
In my opinion, calling a Caucasian a "haole", is pretty much the same thing as calling a Hispanic person a "beaner", a Chinese person a "*****", and an African American person a "******". In other words, it's a totally unacceptable negative term for a certain class or color of person, and definitely a pejorative.
Of course, I imagine that any non-Caucasian Hawaiian local with disagree with me, but it's still my opinion, which is as valid as anyone else's. I think it would be better to not use such terminology for the sake of peaceful relations. After all, "*****", "beaner", and "******" are definitely NOT acceptable terms to call people. Why should "haole" be any different?
Calling someone haole is not on par with those things. Context is usually important. Bear in mind we call Chinese Pake and African Americans Papolo, but it's all out in the open and usually in regards to humor. I'm hapa haole, so I'm a light brown, and we do not really have anything they call Mexicans, which are my peeps. My chinese friend said I am more pake then he is, because I'm so clean. If I get tan, someone my comment that I'm looking papolo. Have a blonde moment? What are you portagee??
Haole is different because it means without breath.... white. When someone asks me what high school I went to (Hawaii bonding 101). I say I'm haole, went to school in NorCal.
On Perry and Price guy came on and said we can fix the zipper lane just get all the kanakas and soles and have them PUSH. Funny. Not racist.
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