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Not sure what a silt fence is, never heard of one so I'm guessing they aren't common around here.
What type of utilities usually depends on exactly where you're building. Some areas have water, some require catchment systems. Some areas have sewer, most (unless you're in a built up area) are either septic or cesspools. Most contractors don't include landscaping and such in the plans, that's either left up to a separate contractor or more commonly up to the homeowner. Folks don't go for perfect lawns around here much, too much work since it's 24/7/365.
If you're gonna install a septic/cesspool, sometimes you can save money by having the folks doing the clearing dig that hole for you so the plumber doesn't have to bring in his own equipment.
It sounds like you're planning on building more house than you may eventually need. Most island houses are pretty small since we spend a lot of time outside and smaller houses are less work to maintain so you have more time to visit friends and go to the beach. A small interior space with huge lanais and a nice yard work real well in most places of Hawaii. But, you'll be living here for a bit before you look to build anything so perhaps you'll have gotten to island ways by then.
We're currently rehabbing a "vacant lot" although we don't intend to sell it after. This is the second time we've bought a vacant lot that had a structure on it. Saves loads of time on permitting and basic utilities, but patch and repair is much more of a pain than new construction. When houses are too far gone to be repaired using a contractor, then they get sold at a really reduced rate since it would cost money to have them removed so the structure is detracted from the value of the land. Since we paid the seller full value for the land, the sellers were happy. Since we're restoring the house instead of tearing it down, they're even happier as well as the neighbors are thrilled. Keeps the character of the neighborhood when the houses remain and there's not one new construction sticking out like a sore thumb.
Hotzcatz, simply awesome information! This was exactly what I hoped to highlight -- how "typical" mainland house construction and considerations differ, sometimes radically, from Hawaiian builds. Up for some follow up discussion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz
2. What is a good siding material? T1-11 is by far the most commonly used siding. Some folks will use the T1-11 without grooves and put a batten on it to simulate a board and batten look, although IMHO they screw it up by putting the battens at 16" o.c. instead of 1' o.c. and use battens that are too big.
This is really good to know. I see T1-11 everywhere on the islands. Any issues with mold, termites, or dryrot?
I think we'd prefer something without grooves/lines but not at an extreme cost hike. I occasionally see stucco which looks sharp but worry about cracks with shifting earth / micro-quakes. Any other economical suggestions for a medium wet environment (dryer western side of Haiku)? What would you say are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th most common siding?
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Originally Posted by hotzcatz
4. Gas vs Electric - Heard gas/propane is cheaper. Any issue with using gas for cooking, instant tankless hot water heater, furnace? There is no natural gas in Hawaii, although there was rumor they were going to start brining it in in tanks. For water heating, go solar. For electric, go solar. There are very, very few furnaces in Hawaii, usually up at elevations above 3,000 feet.
Since we were planning on installing a propane tank for the stove -- I thought that "since it's here", we could multi-purpose it for an on-demand hot water heater - didn't know about the delay or intermittent heating issues! We are planning 3 distinct hot-water zones with long runs between them and was hoping to install 1 "smaller" tankless water heater for each zone (guest room zones would be used infrequently). Was looking at something like the Takagi Propane Tankless Waterheater:
The amazon reviews gave it 4.5 stars by 47 people. Reading the reviews, folks have mentioned that this model has overcome the very valid and recent heat/volume/delay problems plaguing earlier models & manufacturers. Looks like its only a recent innovatoin/solution and there is still a minor issue with low-flow shower heads not drawing enough water for this to kick in. Reviewers had recommended taking out the water flow regulator in the shower head (which I do anyway) -or- running a faucet while showering. Heck, this could be the excuse I need to install a multi-nozzle body spray system in the shower.
Any idea on the cost of a "typical" solar water heater system?
My research confirms what you mentioned, that electricity is the costliest consumable utility on the islands, followed by propane, then solar (amortized) so it makes sense to substitute propane or solar wherever possible. There is no doubt that we will be installing solar as much as possible, even looking at small solar "farms" if rooftop is insufficient (can only use 1 side of a roof) w/ generator backup.
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Originally Posted by hotzcatz
6. Is there an optimal length for the eaves? Minimum 3' to keep the sun off the sides of the house. Also a covered lanai gives a cooling space for the air before it enters the house.
Is 3' eaves a "sweet spot"? Is 4' or 5' better? or would the extra length not make a significant difference to justify the extra price of construction?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz
8. What is a satisfactory concrete foundation slab thickness? There's variations on the edge thickness depending on if it's a one or two story structure, but the basic slab thickness is 4". No dug down foundations unless the lot has a slope or something that requires it. New building code wants to see 12" embedment at the edges of concrete and there's a minimum - I think it's 6" or 8" between grade and wood. At least, on the island of Hawaii, the island of Maui may be different.
Concrete slabs are not your only foundation choice. I find them pretty hard on the feet, myself. You can use a post and pier foundation or some slab and some post and pier. Elevating the house up off the ground cools off the house as well as slows down critters such as centipedes
What would you say is less costly post/pier or concrete slab? By what percentage?
Insulation?
Are there any insulation considerations for a more efficient home?
Roof spans?
Searching the web on "design ideas you can implement to save money on home building" has yielded some pretty ingenious ideas. One was limiting roof spans to < 32' depth since there is a significant cost increase for specialized roof trusses larger than 32'. They didn't mention roof type though -- I suspect a gabled roof. Knowing that hip-roofs are popular in Hawaii due to their better storm/wind resistance, I didn't know if the comment applied. I would certainly spend a little more for a hip roof which is more storm resistant and looks better IMO . Have you seen or heard of any of these limitations? I wonder if there is a home architecture design thread on city-data...
I tell my wife that I am trying to squeeze a larger, more expensive, house into a smaller home budget by utilizing low-cost local materials, modern design ideas, ingenious forehead-slapping "why didn't I think of that" tricks and techniques to either lower the cost of construction or long-term living. Upfront costs for long-term benefits such as solar and wind generators are great as long as it leads to less costly living down the line. To that end, are there any other ideas you've seen which are saving money for home builders? Your thoughts on post/pier built homes being cooler, w/ floor vented closets, is a perfect example - hadn't occurred to me because I live in a colder state.
Last edited by CasualEntrepreneur; 11-04-2015 at 12:50 PM..
T1-11 is about the only siding folks use (unless they're doing expensive construction) at least, if they're doing double wall construction. For single wall construction, it's generally T & G planks. You can still do single wall - one side of the plank wall is the exterior of the house, the other side of the plank is the interior of the house, makes for interesting electrical and plumbing runs - construction on the Island of Hawaii, not sure about Maui.
For mold, termites and dry rot, there's some construction methods which help. Keeping things dry keeps down mold and mildew, but that stuff is pervasive. The lumber is treated against termites, if you're doing slab, there's termite treatment below that, there's termite pans at the bottom of the posts for post and pier. Houses also get tented for termites every few years.
For dry rot, no lumber is in direct contact with the ground or cement. There's usually either tarpaper or tin between wood and cement.
I'm guessing solar water can be had for about $5K or so. We picked up a pair of solar water heating panels and the solar storage tank (honking big electric water heater) as well as the pump and controller for $500 on Craig's List. Swapping a truck repair with a licensed plumber to have it installed.
Hotels and places with long plumbing runs have a circulating pump which keeps the hot water circulating all the time so hot water is instantly available at the faucets. Not sure if that would be a good option for a house or not, though, due to the cost of having the extra plumbing run to get the hot water back to the tank, the constant cooling off of the water through the runs and the cost of running the pump itself. But, that's how hotels do it.
If you demand enough hot water, then an on-demand water heater works well enough. When installing the shower head, put it so you don't have to stand in the water to adjust the temperature. Just sayin'. All you have to do is add a bit of piping between the mixing valve and the shower head itself in order to move it to a different wall. I always hate having to reach through water that it either too hot or too cold in order to adjust it. Also, an optional overhead shower is nice.
The first fixer-upper we had ended up with a ginormous soaking tub (with some excellent views out over a gulch) and a shower off to the side with a stone tiled floor and floor drain. That shower had a straight down huge round pan head shower, a more typical from the side shower, a hand held shower to reach the shower seat and a hot water hose bib for washing down the floor. Also worked well for washing the dogs.
Haven't a clue about cost differences between concrete and post and pier. Concrete will kill your feet if you walk on it much and everyone goes barefoot or with house slippers in the houses around here so concrete is cold. Given a choice, I always opt for post and pier with a wooden floor. By preference, floor beams, floor joists and then min. 3/4" thick T & G flooring. That way there's no need for a sub floor or carpets.
3' is just a typical roof eave, putting lanais all the way around is a very inexpensive method for creating more floor space inexpensively. No walls to build, just floor and roof.
Most folks don't bother much with insulation since most homes aren't air conditioned. Probably couldn't hurt, though. If it were me, I'd opt for the solid insulation so bugs wouldn't get into it.
Most roofs are a five in twelve pitch, made of corrugated tin and have a 3 foot overhang. Hips are more popular than gable, probably by about three to one. Dutch hips with a roof vent are very popular although for some reason some builders don't put in the roof vent which means they're doing it merely for looks which is silly. If you're going to put in a dutch hip, then go the extra little bit and build up the vent out of lumber instead of using one of those ugly metal square vents. A house should be pretty. Look at some of the older houses to get an idea of a nice looking vent.
A 32' roof truss span (bottom chord, not including the overhangs) should be more than long enough.
A larger house isn't automatically a better house. Try reading Sarah Susanka's books about the "Not So Big House". If you're handy at all, you could have a contractor build the basic structure and then you could put in a lot of the fine detail work that makes the smaller houses a pure delight. It also saves when it comes time to decorate, clean, maintain, etc. etc. So go for quality, not mere size. And determine "quality" by how well the house fits it's people and by how comfortable they are living in it. A well designed kitchen that effortlessly allows food to be brought in, stored, prepared, eaten and then clean up after is much better than one full of stainless steel and granite, no matter how pretty and shiny it is. (Although SS and granite are now falling out of favor, but those are just finishes anyway. Structural bones are more important than the shiny finish.)
For saving money during house construction, you can sometimes get some great stuff (doors, windows, sinks, etc.) from Craig's List or Restore, if they have the Restores on Maui. The big fancy hotel resorts renovate about every five years which then puts some really high end fixtures out into the world. We had a huge Kohler soaking tub with matching toilet and sink for $60 for all three. The tub had been installed once before but the other fixtures hadn't been. They were from a garage sale that one of the contractor's was having. Oh, yeah, and building smaller saves money on construction costs, too. Less money you pay for the house = less time you'll have to work to make the money to pay for the house = more time having fun visiting friends and going to the beach.
Since Hawaii is all about views, you can pick up a used sliding glass door on Craig's List and then install it as a fixed glass window. Put louvers above or below it for ventilation. But that's about the least expensive method for getting large expanses of window. Any fixed glass with louvers above and below will usually be less expensive than movable windows. Louvers are also 100% ventilation when they're open as opposed to windows which only allow 50% ventilation. And by having them above and below, you can let the cool air in and the hot air out.
Well, no one is wondering why you won the 500 bucks.
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Not sure what a silt fence is, never heard of one so I'm guessing they aren't common around here.
Definitely no need for a silt fence in Hawaii, at least not on the Big Island. They are common on the mainland, where construction is actually done in dirt. The purpose of a silt fence is to keep the loose soil from eroding off of the construction site during rains.
Location: not sure, but there's a hell of a lot of water around here!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreaming of Hawaii
Definitely no need for a silt fence in Hawaii, at least not on the Big Island. They are common on the mainland, where construction is actually done in dirt. The purpose of a silt fence is to keep the loose soil from eroding off of the construction site during rains.
And, if you're on the Bigger Island, and need a lava fence, Mr. Lee is always available
Winning was surprising to me, Mikala, I'd not expected it. Being able to type about as fast as talking may have helped, since the forum is sort of a place to chat with folks.
It was also interesting. Usually when you get that "you've won" sort of email the first response is to toss it into the spam filter. Then, having it as a gift means you get to spend it on things that aren't in the budget. And for us, buying retail doesn't happen often, but online is pretty much retail so that was interesting on it's own although not likely to have been as interesting for folks who do it a lot.
Oh, is that what a silt fence is, Dreaming of Hawaii. I wonder why our dirt doesn't erode off of places? It seems to stack nicely, too, you'll see cuts for the highway at higher than a 45 degree angle and the hillside just seems to stay up there. Well, mostly, anyway. Rocks do fall off.
Yuppers, JJ, dunno as if Mr. Lee is gonna be forgotten for that one! How to become a kipuka in one easy lesson. His neighbors were real nice about him fencing the lava out of his yard since you know the lava would have then gone into their yard instead. Pele will go where she wants, although it was surprising that she just came up to the fence and then stopped.
When I contacted actual contractors on Kauai 350 plus per square is more likely depending on the quality of the fixtures, etc.
That seems extremely high - even for Kauai. $350 sq ft puts a 1,700 sq ft house at $595,000+ just for the structure - and while I know Kauai is far more expensive than Oahu, that just seems really high. If you paid that kind of money on Oahu, you'd be in luxury home category at that sq ft amount.
I just looked at for sale listings and I think you should try some other contractors.
This typical house in Lihue is nearly 1,900 sq ft on a 16,000 sq ft lot for only $795K unless the land on Kauai is super dirt cheap......
On Oahu, I'm having a fairly basic 2 story 1,700 sq ft guest house built. It will run about $350K. It will take nearly a year from start to finish.
As mentioned, this is a fairly basic guest house - nothing fancy. The timeframe includes getting the permits and it is a fairly painful and lengthy process. It does have a garage (not attached) - and doesn't include the costs for solar and other things like the driveway.......
whtviper, does your $350k guest house estimate include the detached garage? What are the rough dimensions of it? And is it enclosed or a car-port?
This is important since I am trying to figure out if island builders include the garage in their price per square foot. It makes it really confusing to homeowners when some do calculations on "liveable area" and don't include this in their estimate.
Any chance you should share the dimensions of your guest house, or basic blueprint? Would make for a terrific case-study!
Thanks!
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Great stuff!!
This was exactly what I hoped to highlight -- how "typical" mainland house construction and considerations differ, sometimes radically, from Hawaiian builds. Up for some follow up discussion?
