Building a Home in Hawaii - Unqiue Details (insurance, credit)
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Location: not sure, but there's a hell of a lot of water around here!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui
use a bug control company to come spray once a month. most people either spray routinely themselves or have a service. flying bugs really not a problem even with the windows open if you keep a clean house sans food on the counters and spray.
Personally, I stay away from any chemical forms of insect control, preferring natural deterrents. For insect control I've always used Mels 'Rent-a-Gecko', conveniently located in lovely, downtown, Waimanalo. He does ship geckos, by the hundreds, to the outer islands, with a minimal shipping charge, and a slight charge for any geckos which may become 'missing in action' during their deployment to your insect infested abode. (On a few occasions, I've actually ended up with more geckos than I started with, those could be Maui interlopers, or, more likely, some of Mels geckos were hapai? Who knows).
Mel also offers his holiday centipede 'guest retardent' special. Quite ingenious really. If you have too many unexpected guests over the holidays, and you can't seem to get them to leave even after the Super Bowl is pau, just try Mel's retardent. He'll send you some of his largest, nastiest, fastest, most venomous centipedes, (he gets them in Kahala), a dozen or so, and a few packets of his centipede 'love scent'. (I think it's actually just a concoction of vanilla, thyme and ginger, all ground up, centipedes seem to find it's scent irresistable, gets them all lolo for love.) All you need to do is sprinkle a bit of it onto either your guests bedding, towels, shoes, (face it, they probably aren't wearing rubbah slippahs. Mainlanders, go figur), or, if you're feeling VERY kolohe, into their underwear)
After a few close encounters of the kanapi kine, your guests will be piling into that Yugo they got from Kakaako Rent a Crap, and burning rubber, (maybe not, it's a Yugo, but they will be going as fast as they can), for the airport, the bus stop, the pier, or the homeless shelter on Kuhio,,, literally, on Kuhio...
Can't go wrong with Mels!!
I've seen many low-key homes pencil out at $300-$400/SF on Oahu. Site work alone can cost several hundred thousand for a 2,000-2,500 sf home. So before they even lay one stick they are already well above $100/sf. There is a reason flat and level lots cost a ton more per sqft than heavily sloped lots. The highest price I've ever seen was $1,400/ SF. But that home was more like an ultra high end resort than a home. Once you go high end there really is no limit on the cost per sqft.
So there are 3 price points for building a home from scratch:
1. Cost of the lot
2. Site work (clearing land, digging utility trenches, grading land, installing drive/walkways & patios, landscaping, site plans, etc)
3. Building the actual structure of the house
Both the costs of the lot and the site work can vary DRAMATICALLY and is the main reason builders/developers do not include them in with the cost of the actual construction. If they did then house model A built on a flat, cleared, lot with no view might be $300/sq ft while the same house (model A) built on a forested, sloping, lot on the coast could run $1000+/sq ft. This is why Viper's example is so good. It doesn't take into account the lot (which he already paid for), or the driveway or garage. It was solely for the construction of the guesthouse -- this gives a really good indicator of an optimized price per sq ft. The only thing left to factor in is what he/or the builder chose to use for the more expensive material costs such as the type of foundation and roofing system. Economy plays a major role with the 2nd floor design, otherwise that same house would very likely cost 25+% more if it were all 1 level. Viper may have balked at a $470k price tag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz
More than likely dimensions in that neighborhood would be 24' x 36'. Sheets of plywood and just about all other construction materials come in 4' x 8' rectangles. You can get some in 4' x 9' and up to 4' x 10' but anything outside the standard dimensions costs big bucks. Which means, most house dimensions are on either 4' or 2' increments. 36' is much more common than 35' and 24' or 26' is much more common than 25'.
You can get a standard 2" x 4" board (actual dimensions are around 1.5" x 3.5" but they call them a 2x4) in standard lengths of 8', 10', 12', 14', etc., up to about 16', maybe up to 20'. After that you start in on 2x6's for longer, but max is about 24'. There is a "stud" length 2x4 made for building 8' stud walls without any cuts, those are slightly less than 8' but other than that, almost all lumber comes in standard lengths starting at 8' and going up in 2' increments. Pipes generally run in ten and twenty foot lengths.
If your design is set to use standard lengths, you'll save a lot on construction costs.
Excellent point - couldn't have said it any better! -- I was just shootin' from the hip.... Hotzcatz, I've been blown away by your knowledge and willingness to post in-depth informative replies on a variety of topics (home design and gardening). Any other topics you delve into?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui
use a bug control company to come spray once a month. most people either spray routinely themselves or have a service. flying bugs really not a problem even with the windows open if you keep a clean house sans food on the counters and spray.
Really good to know - Do they put down anything in particular or just a can of RAID? I haven't tried it but hear that some folks mix their own formulas.
My wife closes windows & doors behind me to stem the tide of bugs attracted to the inside lights at night. I tell her "You're gonna have to get use to it in Hawaii..."
I'm sure everyone knows a whole bunch about something, CasualEntrepeneur, that's why we are stronger as a group than as individuals. Should you happen to want more information than most folks ever care to hear about the color genetics of angora rabbits or how to make their fiber into yarn, just ask. Now back to home building:
Most windows and doors will have screens on them. Screen doors that automatically close are a good thing or you can look into those "magic mesh" doors that automatically close themselves with a line of magnets. Also, most bugs come out in the evening and nights although chickens are out all day long so you may want the screens to keep them out, too. When they get into your house they will eat your African violets.
I've not heard that those CO2 traps work all that well, and I think they are mostly for mosquitoes. Putting in a water feature with mosquito fish to eat the eggs the mosquitoes lay does quite a bit to keep the mosquito population down surprisingly enough.
Awhile back there was a question between tin roof and asphalt shingles. Most houses use tin roof as roofing material, partly because some folks capture the rainwater to use for household water and sometimes because it's less expensive. With a tin roof, you don't need roof decking below it. Roof rafters/trusses at 2' o.c. with 2x4 roof purlins @ 2' o.c. and criss crossing of metal Simpson strapping at about 6' o.c. and then tin roof on top of that. No plywood roof substrate. Saves quite a bit on roofing costs. Although, this is what they do on the Island of Hawaii, I'm not sure if it will work on Oahu or not, each island has slightly different rules.
And the stilts (4x4 posts braced with a 2x4 2,3 or 4 ways) are wood, the floor joists are wood and usually the flooring is wood as well. Sometimes there's no subfloor there, either, just floor joists with wood installed directly on them. However, most of this wood has been pressure treated with anti-termite stuff. Another option I keep thinking of would be to soak it in the ocean for about a week. Before the highway, they'd float building materials down the coast and houses made from wood that floated in the ocean reportedly didn't have termites in them.
Frequently, there's not a whole lot of cost savings in putting the plumbing stacks above each other. There's some, of course, but not as much as you might think. Many plumbers just count up how many fixtures are being installed and don't even look at the plans before giving you a quote. So, in my way of thinking, there's not enough savings to make it worth it to not have the plumbing fixtures exactly where they are most useful. Don't go too crazy about putting them across the house from each other, but don't do too much work in making them extremely close, either. A length of PVC pipe is about $20, isn't it? That gives you twenty feet either way more or less for about $20.
Building up isn't always less expensive than building out, although that is frequently true but not always. It all depends. If you're doing two story, it's 2x6's at 16" o.c. for the lower story framing so you've got more expensive lumber to hold up the upper floor. Then the floor joists and all for the second floor. A one story with a huge lanai around it, may cost out less per square foot even though you've got a larger roof.
Yup, wide lanais are great things and interior hallways can take up a lot of space. You can also tuck storage areas under stairways and have a lot of indoor/outdoor areas which really increase your living area without adding a lot of interior construction costs to the building. Another fun thing to do is to see what the resorts do with lanais and such. They seem to like having the living room sort of go right into the lanai without much differentiation between them. Then frequently there is a big swimming pool with an infinity edge there, too. Not sure about the costs of that, just construction costs, then you have to factor in the costs of running it, too.
Which is another thing when building in Hawaii. Electric rates are going to be much higher than you're used to so your default answer using some sort of electrical driven device may be too costly.
However, most of this wood has been pressure treated with anti-termite stuff. .
Not pressure treated, as the wood doesn't have indentation marks. It's Borax dipped for bug resistance. CCA wood, with copper and arsenic, used to be the standard but is no longer used due to environmental concerns.
The great majority of termite damage found in Hawaii is due to flying termites, so it doesn't really matter where the structural wood is located. If you use anything other than treated wood, or wood with natural bug resistance such as cedar and redwood, the termites tend to find it. These termites work relatively slowly, so it takes many years for them to really do a number on a house. Do not use untreated plywood, as this is one of their favorites.
Ground termites are another story, as they can destroy a home in no time. Not sure where they are found in the islands, but thankfully haven't seem them around Puna. Too much rock, perhaps.
I've not heard that those CO2 traps work all that well, and I think they are mostly for mosquitoes. Putting in a water feature with mosquito fish to eat the eggs the mosquitoes lay does quite a bit to keep the mosquito population down surprisingly enough.
Awhile back there was a question between tin roof and asphalt shingles. Most houses use tin roof as roofing material, partly because some folks capture the rainwater to use for household water and sometimes because it's less expensive. With a tin roof, you don't need roof decking below it. Roof rafters/trusses at 2' o.c. with 2x4 roof purlins @ 2' o.c. and criss crossing of metal Simpson strapping at about 6' o.c. and then tin roof on top of that. No plywood roof substrate. Saves quite a bit on roofing costs. Although, this is what they do on the Island of Hawaii, I'm not sure if it will work on Oahu or not, each island has slightly different rules.
And the stilts (4x4 posts braced with a 2x4 2,3 or 4 ways) are wood, the floor joists are wood and usually the flooring is wood as well. Sometimes there's no subfloor there, either, just floor joists with wood installed directly on them. However, most of this wood has been pressure treated with anti-termite stuff. Another option I keep thinking of would be to soak it in the ocean for about a week. Before the highway, they'd float building materials down the coast and houses made from wood that floated in the ocean reportedly didn't have termites in them.
Frequently, there's not a whole lot of cost savings in putting the plumbing stacks above each other. There's some, of course, but not as much as you might think. Many plumbers just count up how many fixtures are being installed and don't even look at the plans before giving you a quote. So, in my way of thinking, there's not enough savings to make it worth it to not have the plumbing fixtures exactly where they are most useful. Don't go too crazy about putting them across the house from each other, but don't do too much work in making them extremely close, either. A length of PVC pipe is about $20, isn't it? That gives you twenty feet either way more or less for about $20.
Building up isn't always less expensive than building out, although that is frequently true but not always. It all depends. If you're doing two story, it's 2x6's at 16" o.c. for the lower story framing so you've got more expensive lumber to hold up the upper floor. Then the floor joists and all for the second floor. A one story with a huge lanai around it, may cost out less per square foot even though you've got a larger roof.
Which is another thing when building in Hawaii. Electric rates are going to be much higher than you're used to so your default answer using some sort of electrical driven device may be too costly.
A lot of good info here!
Great tip about the water feature with egg-eating fish! -- love love it!
I never would have thought about not putting a plywood substrate on the roof but it makes sense and was exactly the kind of tip I'm looking for. I was thinking of applying a palm-weave on the interior ceiling - really has a good island look if done right - just don't know how I'd handle recessed lighting as cutting out a hole may be problematic...
I'm also a little concerned about "tinging sound" when it rains. any thoughts?
again, good info on the plumbing stacks -- I know that PLEX water runs are being installed on all new construction here. Its much easier to run than PVC (much fewer connection joints) and it can withstand about 25% expansion should it ever freeze (obviously not an issue in HI). Still gotta use 3" PVC for drains tho..
For the 2x6 studs for 2 story buildings I noticed on Maui's Home Depot page that 2x6x8 studs are $20/piece (probably a premium wood) and generic 2x4x8 studs are $2.63. Makes me wonder if I could double up on them on every other vertical stud to carry the weight at a savings of 75%...
Yes, we are already bracing for the electrical difference. Looked it up on the US Energy Information site:
Electricity is 4 TIMES more expensive in Hawaii than Virginia. -- whoa! There is no doubt we are going solar (PV). Oddly though, it was more expensive in the winter than summer -- if I was reading it right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Cleric
The great majority of termite damage found in Hawaii is due to flying termites, so it doesn't really matter where the structural wood is located. If you use anything other than treated wood, or wood with natural bug resistance such as cedar and redwood, the termites tend to find it. These termites work relatively slowly, so it takes many years for them to really do a number on a house. Do not use untreated plywood, as this is one of their favorites.
Ground termites are another story, as they can destroy a home in no time. Not sure where they are found in the islands, but thankfully haven't seem them around Puna. Too much rock, perhaps.
Did a little research this afternoon. Seems that a great many folks (on the mainland) are using a combination of termite stakes and Termidor SC for termite and ant control with great success. Stakes for prevention and Termidor SC liquid concentrate if you have an infestation. One guy even proposed setting up a irrigation drip system using Termidor (which is concentrated) instead of digging 6" ditches around the perimeter of your house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungjohann
For insect control I've always used Mels 'Rent-a-Gecko', conveniently located in lovely, downtown, Waimanalo.
ROFL.... Love it! Does the guy actually sell geckos?
So lets see what we have now:
Hens (for the ground war)
CO2 traps and egg-eating fish for mosquitos
Fruit Fly traps made out of 2-litre bottles for flies
Terminate stakes & Termidor liquid perimeter bait & colony destruction for ants and termites
Geckos (outside) as roaming hunter-killers
Damn, anything get through that they must be wearing Kevlar!
Don't forget the geckos inside to eat the insects. We have at least four. Not that we planned it that way; they just show up. Every once in a while one comes in from outside, and every once in a while I put one back outside. Downside is that they poop wherever they feel like it, but they are good roaming hunter-killers.
We use Amdro for ants. Just sprinkle it around the foundation (outside) and the ants that are inside disappear. It doesn't harm the dog. Got to refresh it every couple months or so. I think it also helps to keep the centipedes outside.
Great tip about the water feature with egg-eating fish! -- love love it!
I never would have thought about not putting a plywood substrate on the roof but it makes sense and was exactly the kind of tip I'm looking for. I was thinking of applying a palm-weave on the interior ceiling - really has a good island look if done right - just don't know how I'd handle recessed lighting as cutting out a hole may be problematic...
I'm also a little concerned about "tinging sound" when it rains. any thoughts?
again, good info on the plumbing stacks -- I know that PLEX water runs are being installed on all new construction here. Its much easier to run than PVC (much fewer connection joints) and it can withstand about 25% expansion should it ever freeze (obviously not an issue in HI). Still gotta use 3" PVC for drains tho..
For the 2x6 studs for 2 story buildings I noticed on Maui's Home Depot page that 2x6x8 studs are $20/piece (probably a premium wood) and generic 2x4x8 studs are $2.63. Makes me wonder if I could double up on them on every other vertical stud to carry the weight at a savings of 75%...
Yes, we are already bracing for the electrical difference. Looked it up on the US Energy Information site:
Electricity is 4 TIMES more expensive in Hawaii than Virginia. -- whoa! There is no doubt we are going solar (PV). Oddly though, it was more expensive in the winter than summer -- if I was reading it right.
Did a little research this afternoon. Seems that a great many folks (on the mainland) are using a combination of termite stakes and Termidor SC for termite and ant control with great success. Stakes for prevention and Termidor SC liquid concentrate if you have an infestation. One guy even proposed setting up a irrigation drip system using Termidor (which is concentrated) instead of digging 6" ditches around the perimeter of your house.
ROFL.... Love it! Does the guy actually sell geckos?
So lets see what we have now:
Hens (for the ground war)
CO2 traps and egg-eating fish for mosquitos
Fruit Fly traps made out of 2-litre bottles for flies
Terminate stakes & Termidor liquid perimeter bait & colony destruction for ants and termites
Geckos (outside) as roaming hunter-killers
Damn, anything get through that they must be wearing Kevlar!
Don't get a tin roof without a well-insulated attic or contiguous soffit. When it rains hard you will want to blow your brains out.
There is no issue whatsoever using 2x4s on lower and upper floors to frame a two-story house.
If you want to save time and money, just go with conventional building practices. Any idea you come up with that isn't familiar to the builder will only cost you more money and time. It's inevitable. I did something similar years back... built a LEED platinum project and let me tell you... never ever ever again will I burn so many sacks of cash to fulfill my internal needs to build "more efficiently" or "more sustainable". Stick with the common practices and throw in a few design tweaks here and there that personalize the home to your liking. But let the builder run with what he/she is most comfortable with. You will save countless $$ and you will preserve your sanity.
Don't forget the geckos inside to eat the insects. We have at least four. Not that we planned it that way; they just show up. Every once in a while one comes in from outside, and every once in a while I put one back outside. Downside is that they poop wherever they feel like it, but they are good roaming hunter-killers.
We use Amdro for ants. Just sprinkle it around the foundation (outside) and the ants that are inside disappear. It doesn't harm the dog. Got to refresh it every couple months or so. I think it also helps to keep the centipedes outside.
Another inexpensive tip for roaches and other critters that live/breed in walls is to dump mounds of boric acid on the base plate of the entire house. It takes an hour or so to do a large house and maybe $50-$70 in material. It won't rid roaches completely but it makes the inside of walls mostly uninhabitable for roaches for decades to come. I also sprinkle boric acid under all cabinets (behind toekicks). Keeps the buggers out of there too.
Geckos like chocolate milk and don't seem as happy with almond milk.
We have mostly the bright green ones, now. They seem a bit more adventurous, though. One of them lives above the microwave and he's always coming down for a hand out. He also likes iced coffee/ banana smoothies.
We keep these guys for outside:
That's a small one, they get up to about a foot long.
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The Bug War!
