If California secedes (new home, earthquakes, live in)

[Futuremauian]

Originally Posted by loveautumn

And how will California defend itself? Will need to create its own military and defense systems...there will be plenty of countries wanting to take it over. The US will need to defend it.

Just like we defend Canada. So what? Obviously the U. S. isn't going to allow Russia or China or Iran to occupy California even if it did become independent. Not going to happen so why keep beating this dead horse?
BTW: Hawaii is NEVER going to be an independent country either. Most Hawaiians would vote against this in spite of all the blather about being an "occupied country".

[adebord]

Originally Posted by Futuremauian

Just like we defend Canada. So what? Obviously the U. S. isn't going to allow Russia or China or Iran to occupy California even if it did become independent. Not going to happen so why keep beating this dead horse?
BTW: Hawaii is NEVER going to be an independent country either. Most Hawaiians would vote against this in spite of all the blather about being an "occupied country".

Kinda like Cuba.

Oh wait.

[earthisle]

Originally Posted by loveautumn

And how will California defend itself? Will need to create its own military and defense systems...there will be plenty of countries wanting to take it over. The US will need to defend it.

People say this about Texas too. I don't see how it can possibly be a concern. California has 25 bases, Texas has 16 bases.

[boulder2015]

Originally Posted by earthisle

People say this about Texas too. I don't see how it can possibly be a concern. California has 25 bases, Texas has 16 bases.

Sigh... if you secede, those are no longer your bases. And bases without an army are useless.

[Gunluvver2]

We had our time as a great country because it was founded on principles based on the BEST in human behavior. The decline is because of rejection of those principles by many of our citizens.

[jgn2013]

Originally Posted by Cedge1

These people assume that nothing changes but their claim of sovereignty. Their nightmare begins the next day, when all federal funds are withdrawn and all Federal assets are closed or removed to another location within the US borders. Now they have millions of illegals who are not getting their federal entitlements. They will quickly abandon the state for better deals. Ex Pat Citizens will begin to flood other states, rather than surrender ever more taxes to a rapidly failing state. Food subsidies will be a thing of the past, making hunger a problem especially in metro areas.

Yep... the vision only gets worse the more I visualize ever more ominous dominoes falling. But hey... I hear they've imported Empress Hillary to lead them. The Clintons are really doing quite well these days, if only a country.. any country... would actually recognize that worthless new currency, so that they can spend some of the booty.

I agree that secession is foolish. However, "blue" states typically give back far more to the federal government that what they receive in entitlements. "Red" states are generally net receivers with the exception of TX (I think TX is basically neutral on a per dollar basis).

In other words, California and the other western states would suffer if they left, but the large landmass known as Middle America would also suffer if the coasts just decided to break off.

[ABQConvict]

Several posts argue that California's self reliance can be assured by the fact that it is the largest food producer and third largest energy (oil) producer in the country.

However, these resources are in 'red' politically conservative parts of the state. Were California able to secede in its entirety, how would these regions be politically represented in a new sovereign state whose inception is principally founded on a rejection of the values of its vital food and energy producers?

Perhaps some sort of vassalage system could be implemented where the production of resources would be under state control or operated by coastal (liberal) trusts. The residents of these conservative regions could then be given a status of limited freedoms like freedom to move, freedom to work, but not freedom to vote (as that would undermine the whole reason for secession). Maybe some sort of party-status organization could be instituted to allow Californians with the right political views to live in conservative areas but maintain full rights.

This would be an exciting experiment.

[whtviper1]

I suppose I'm the only one who thinks a California secession discussion is best had in the California forum rather than a state 2,500 miles away.....

[hotzcatz]

Okay, well, WhiteViper, just bring logic into the whole discussion, eh? Hmm, you're right, though, it should be a California discussion. Although I don't think any state is gonna secede. Considering how much effort it is just to move a property line over and that's just a line on a map between two people, I really don't see how they'd move a line on a map that would affect millions of people.

[ABQConvict]

I think General U.S. would be the most appropriate forum for this discussion since the ramification of the secession of an American state affects the citizens of all American states.