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Old 05-08-2020, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Kahala
12,120 posts, read 17,894,590 times
Reputation: 6176

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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post

The other policy proposal I've been reading about to put ankle monitors on visitors likely would not.
I don't know - if it applied to all visitors, it may fly.

Hawaii isn't the only state to think about ankle monitors - some have used them

https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...ts/5094594002/

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020...rus-scofflaws/

 
Old 05-08-2020, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,612 posts, read 18,192,641 times
Reputation: 34463
Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1 View Post
I don't know - if it applied to all visitors, it may fly.

Hawaii isn't the only state to think about ankle monitors - some have used them

https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...ts/5094594002/

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020...rus-scofflaws/
It is a very different thing, legally/constitutionally, for a court to require ankle monitors for people who refuse to quarantine in accordance with the law vs. states instituting policy requiring ankle monitors for an entire class of people just on account of their status. The latter would run afoul of due process and privacy concerns while the former does not.

Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 05-08-2020 at 04:59 PM..
 
Old 05-08-2020, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Kahala
12,120 posts, read 17,894,590 times
Reputation: 6176
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
The latter would run afoul of due process and privacy concerns while the former does not.
If they said - ankle bracelets for anyone from China - definitely an equal protection/due process issue. Privacy? Quarantine already restricts your movement to a certain area - and ankle bracelet enforces it.

You apply ankle bracelets to all incoming visitors for a set amount of time - I think they could prevail - but we won't know what a court would rule until when/if they try to do it.
 
Old 05-08-2020, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,612 posts, read 18,192,641 times
Reputation: 34463
Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1 View Post
If they said - ankle bracelets for anyone from China - definitely an equal protection/due process issue. Privacy? Quarantine already restricts your movement to a certain area - and ankle bracelet enforces it.

You apply ankle bracelets to all incoming visitors for a set amount of time - I think they could prevail - but we won't know what a court would rule until when/if they try to do it.
Its due process/privacy (privacy being a part of due process) regardless because you are placing an item on people's body without giving them the right to be heard/without a court determining that they meet certain criteria justifying the intrusion. To this point, an ankle monitor for everyone regardless of any violation of the law foundationally flies in the face of what is a reasonable expectation of privacy based on community standards, etc. In the case of the people who refuse quarantine, they were given the opportunity to be heard and fight an attempt to violate privacy in a court of law. And equal protection isn't due process; there wouldn't really been an equal protection issue here.

The fact that people would be already confined to a room doesn't negate this, as an ankle monitor would be excessive and there would be less restrictive means to meet the government's objectives. Privacy/certain due process violations require a compelling government interest and Strict Scrutiny would apply. Making every visitor wear an ankle monitor would not be narrowly tailored to the situation as it would apply to all visitors, despite only a handful of visitors (relatively speaking) being reported for breaking quarantine. Additionally, there would be less restrictive means to meet the government's compelling interest of ensuring that people possibly carrying a deadly disease are quarantined . . . for starters, as I mentioned, the State could increase randomized spot check of hotel rooms, and then there's the possibility of having a quarantine specific hotel to better monitor as the AG has mentioned.

Again, making people who refuse to obey the law wear an ankle monitor is inherently different than requiring that all visitors wear such. As is requiring quarantine for those arriving during a global pandemic; considering the incubation period for covid, this restriction is neither excessive nor are there really reasonably less restrictive means.

The case law on privacy/due process and strict scrutiny is clear. This isn't some grey area of the law.

Edit: to the point about the law being clear, there is a reason why the Hawaii Attorney General has changed the discussion from possibly making all visitors wear an ankle monitor to only requiring people who violate quarantine to wear one. See the change in the discussions per news reports from https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/0...tourists-eyed/ to https://www.kitv.com/story/42103327/...vel-quarantine

We may be dealing with an unprecedented (in our lifetimes in the States) pandemic, but the Constitution doesn't go out the window during it. We've already had numerous federal courts invalidate certain covid restrictions as violating the First Amendment as an example.

Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 05-08-2020 at 07:06 PM..
 
Old 05-08-2020, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Kahala
12,120 posts, read 17,894,590 times
Reputation: 6176
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Its due process/privacy (privacy being a part of due process) regardless because you are placing an item on people's body without giving them the right to be heard/without a court determining that they meet certain criteria justifying the intrusion.
If the government can force an inoculation on you - that tells me there is ultimately a lot of things they can do.

Heck - the US Supreme Court allowed the detention of American Citizens of Japanese descent during WW II - I don't think the constitution did much for them then.
 
Old 05-08-2020, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Kahala
12,120 posts, read 17,894,590 times
Reputation: 6176
On Hawaii New Now at 5pm, they did a report about 100 hotels still open (that surprised me that many) and that the majority have now agreed voluntarily to issue 1 time use room keys and call law enforcement if guests need another key to enter the room

I think they also said KGMB at 6pm will run a segment on diversifying the economy.....
 
Old 05-09-2020, 06:04 AM
 
2,378 posts, read 1,313,222 times
Reputation: 1725
Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1 View Post
If the government can force an inoculation on you - that tells me there is ultimately a lot of things they can do.

Heck - the US Supreme Court allowed the detention of American Citizens of Japanese descent during WW II - I don't think the constitution did much for them then.
There have been many rulings by the SCOTUS that have been unconstitutional and downright awful.
 
Old 05-09-2020, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
995 posts, read 509,266 times
Reputation: 2170
When is Hawaii going to end this ridiculous 14-quarantine? Don't they realize they're utterly destroying the main pillar of their economy?

No tourist is gonna ever visit if they have to stay locked up in a hotel room for 14 days.

Good thing I can travel freely between the states on the mainland, and I have been. No checkpoints, no quarantine.

Why is Hawaii different?
 
Old 05-09-2020, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Kahala
12,120 posts, read 17,894,590 times
Reputation: 6176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
When is Hawaii going to end this ridiculous 14-quarantine?
I suspect resident quarantine lifted June 1 - non residents after July 4 or later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
No tourist is gonna ever visit if they have to stay locked up in a hotel room for 14 days.
That's actually the point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
Why is Hawaii different?
Perhaps being the most remote populated city on the planet?
 
Old 05-09-2020, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Portland OR / Honolulu HI
959 posts, read 1,214,485 times
Reputation: 1869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
When is Hawaii going to end this ridiculous 14-quarantine? Don't they realize they're utterly destroying the main pillar of their economy?

No tourist is gonna ever visit if they have to stay locked up in a hotel room for 14 days.

Good thing I can travel freely between the states on the mainland, and I have been. No checkpoints, no quarantine.

Why is Hawaii different?
The only people who feel the 14-day quarantine on tourist arrivals is ridiculous are the tourists. Most residents don’t feel it’s ridiculous.

And most tourists who think it’s ridiculous are the selfish ones who want to do whatever they want, whenever they want, with disregard to other people or the rules in place to help protect everyone. Even with the quarantine you see people still trying to abuse it. Imagine if there was no quarantine there is no way you could enforce social distancing and still feed and house 50,000 tourists crammed into Waikiki every night.
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