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My understanding is that you qualify for a subsidy if your family income is less than about $90,000 a year. I assume your business income is more than this? In essence you complain about having to pay about $9,600 a year for decent health insurance which covers more than your old plan would have.
One of the problems we have in this country is that a lot of people who were self-employed chose--prior to the ACA--to either have no insurance or bare bones policies that didn't cover much of anything. They simply planned on paying cash--or filing bankruptcy if they got sick. The people who seem to be most upset by the ACA here on this forum are self-employed types. I'd honestly like to know what their insurance arrangement was before the ACA. I bet I am right.
I don't believe this is necessarily the case. Certainly not in my experience. Any links to your claim or just a guess on your part? All the business owners I know (and I know quite a few, including myself) had health insurance prior to the ACA. I can also tell you that my policy was not some bare bone policy. It was a very good BC/BS program with a moderate deductible. Since the ACA came into being, my insurance cost has more than doubled in the last 2 years. Largest increases I've ever had in almost 30 years. It has been one hellava deal!
So is letting everybody who does have health insurance pick up the tab for your medical bills if you have a medical emergency, are uninsured, and can't pay the $100k it takes to save your life ....
I don't believe this is necessarily the case. Certainly not in my experience. Any links to your claim or just a guess on your part? All the business owners I know (and I know quite a few, including myself) had health insurance prior to the ACA. I can also tell you that my policy was not some bare bone policy. It was a very good BC/BS program with a moderate deductible. Since the ACA came into being, my insurance cost has more than doubled in the last 2 years. Largest increases I've ever had in almost 30 years. It has been one hellava deal!
This link shows that a family of four can qualify for minimal subsidies up to an income of $85,000 per year.
If your health insurance went up in price its a combination of these factors:
1. Increased coverage.
2. General increases in the cost of health care (which were running at about 7% a year before the ACA).
I'm not saying what the ACA did was perfect. I am saying that most of the self-employed people who whine about the ACA are making 100K or better and can probably afford $10,000 a year for health insurance.
I made the comments that I did about plenty of self-employed people choosing to buy "bare bones" policies before the ACA because I observed it happening in any number of situations. Heck, I even heard some of the people I know joke about defaulting on their debts and filing bankruptcy if they got so sick they couldn't pay their bills. This might be understandable coming from the ranks of the working poor. However, this was group of independent self-employed people who did their best to not think about health insurance much at all. Whether they will realize it or not, they were part of the problem that lead to the ACA.
I don't believe this is necessarily the case. Certainly not in my experience. Any links to your claim or just a guess on your part? All the business owners I know (and I know quite a few, including myself) had health insurance prior to the ACA. I can also tell you that my policy was not some bare bone policy. It was a very good BC/BS program with a moderate deductible. Since the ACA came into being, my insurance cost has more than doubled in the last 2 years. Largest increases I've ever had in almost 30 years. It has been one hellava deal!
I'll disagree on the income you can have an qualify for a subsidy. All the information I've seen is that people with incomes up to 400% of the Federal Poverty Level will be eligible for some level of premium subsidy if they are purchasing coverage as individuals (not businesses) on the exchange.
100% of the Federal Poverty Level is currently $11,770 for a single person, $24,250 for a family of four.
400% of the Federal Poverty Level for a family of four would be 4 x $24,250 = $97,000.
I urge you, as a business owner and a critical thinker to look at business coverage of the factors affecting the rise in healthcare costs. There are a number of factors that are much broader and multi-factorial than "Obamacare has caused this mess." I wish it were so simple as to say that we just remove the ACA. Insurance companies encourage this thinking, because it gets them off the hook.
For example, several of us have been following the coverage of a lawsuit in Michigan which has been brought, if memory serves, by an independent business owner about how Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Michigan sets it's rates. Some of the documents that have been introduced have shown that Blue Cross has been demanding that their discounts must be 20-40% deeper than those of their competitors, or they will drop that hospital from being in their network. Because Blue Cross controls something like 60% of the market, statewide, they have enormous power over the costs that the providers charge their competing insurance companies. This is a business practice that FAR pre-dates the ACA, and probably is in play in most insurance markets, and which, in my mind, mimics the practices of the monopolies of the Gilded Age.
Well Mark as a self employed person who has purchased his own insurance for the past almost 20 years I can tell you that I was able to purchase insurance as an individual via a group association from a major health insurer, something I can no longer do. Now I am stuck with psuedo exchange plans ( I don't buy from the exchange but the non exchange plans for individuals are the exact same plans in my area). I also find it harder to get an HSA compatible plan because 85% of purchasers of exchange plans can't even afford premiums, so most insurers in my area have scrapped HSA compatibility in lieu of 2 free MD visits.
I miss the choices I had prior to ACA. I hate being stuck purchasing crap insurance designed for the masses who are financially illiterate and create demand for such poor policies. I would much be better able to design/purchase a plan that better suits my financial wants/needs. I already pay enough taxes in my state to provide medicaid and CHIP plans to some many people. Why didn't other states do this before? Wouldn't have needed this ACA monstrosity if states did what was right.
But ACA is unsustainable. Cadillac tax has been delayed further, creating a deficit in anticipated revenue to pay for ACA. What happens to the premiums then? Why aren't subsidy levels tied to cost of living in area as is done in Medicare?
This system will just implode as more people find the penalty to be the better choice. A family making 100K (just above subsidy levels) can easily see expenses in premiums and deductible of opver 20% of their income before a penny in sick care is covered by an insurer. That 100K family is already barely getting by in NYC area due to highest cost of living in country and insane taxes. When is the limit reached where you just roll the dice and go bare? 30% of income to health insurance? 40%? How does that large expense preclude you from buying a home, paying for childcare or saving for retirement? ACA does NOTHING to address this. If you are not subsidized, ACA has no limits on max percentage of income you will spend on healthcare. Basically you are the piggy bank for the subsidized, making your insurance more expensive than it was pre ACA.
Sorry for the rant, but those who get their insurance via their jobs have no idea of the cost of buying individual insurance now. My premiums have gone up over 500% since I started 20 years ago, with NO discernible relief due to ACA implementation because I am one of the 15% of individuals who are paying full price for their insurance. We are the ones who have no voice in this because we are such a small minority in this country.
Hopefully something can be done, but I am not optimistic. Subsidized folks are well represented as are the workers with great plans who got Cadillac plan tax delayed (and most likely permanently removed). Non subsidized folks are still the forgotten ones with no relief in sight.
The others that are "subsidized" are all the state, local, and federal employees that have absolutely no empathy with those who are paying their way in total! They also see no need to change a system that is benevolent to them.
I'll disagree on the income you can have an qualify for a subsidy. All the information I've seen is that people with incomes up to 400% of the Federal Poverty Level will be eligible for some level of premium subsidy if they are purchasing coverage as individuals (not businesses) on the exchange.
100% of the Federal Poverty Level is currently $11,770 for a single person, $24,250 for a family of four.
400% of the Federal Poverty Level for a family of four would be 4 x $24,250 = $97,000.
I urge you, as a business owner and a critical thinker to look at business coverage of the factors affecting the rise in healthcare costs. There are a number of factors that are much broader and multi-factorial than "Obamacare has caused this mess." I wish it were so simple as to say that we just remove the ACA. Insurance companies encourage this thinking, because it gets them off the hook.
For example, several of us have been following the coverage of a lawsuit in Michigan which has been brought, if memory serves, by an independent business owner about how Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Michigan sets it's rates. Some of the documents that have been introduced have shown that Blue Cross has been demanding that their discounts must be 20-40% deeper than those of their competitors, or they will drop that hospital from being in their network. Because Blue Cross controls something like 60% of the market, statewide, they have enormous power over the costs that the providers charge their competing insurance companies. This is a business practice that FAR pre-dates the ACA, and probably is in play in most insurance markets, and which, in my mind, mimics the practices of the monopolies of the Gilded Age.
While there are many factors that contribute to the high cost, I would contend that the lack of "real" competition is one of the major reasons. The ACA will not change this. As an owner of multiple businesses in different economic sectors the cost of insurance was always an issue. We often had to switch providers every year or two to contain costs. However, with the advent of the ACA my costs have skyrocketed and I've been left with fewer alternatives/choices.
Now for those who believe that not having insurance is an option, that is nothing more than foolishnes. My daughter was between jobs a few years back and only had a couple weeks gap in insurance coverage. She decided to risk it. During that time, her 4 year old son came down with viral encephalitis. The bill was way into 6 figures. Now she is lucky from the standpoint that she is a very high earner, nonetheless she had to pay for this out of pocket, something that would have financially ruined most people.
This link shows that a family of four can qualify for minimal subsidies up to an income of $85,000 per year.
If your health insurance went up in price its a combination of these factors:
1. Increased coverage.
2. General increases in the cost of health care (which were running at about 7% a year before the ACA).
I'm not saying what the ACA did was perfect. I am saying that most of the self-employed people who whine about the ACA are making 100K or better and can probably afford $10,000 a year for health insurance.
I made the comments that I did about plenty of self-employed people choosing to buy "bare bones" policies before the ACA because I observed it happening in any number of situations. Heck, I even heard some of the people I know joke about defaulting on their debts and filing bankruptcy if they got so sick they couldn't pay their bills. This might be understandable coming from the ranks of the working poor. However, this was g
So you feel that 10% of gross income (if 100K) is a reasonable amount to pay for insurance premiums (not healthcare). If that person is in a 30% bracket then they are paying 14% of net income for premiums. Note this is not healthcare. They still have to get past the deductible to begin enjoying any type of "coverage".
How do people make gross generalization such as you did ===>
"group of independent self-employed people who did their best to not think about health insurance much at all. Whether they will realize it or not, they were part of the problem that lead to the ACA."
those who get their insurance via their jobs have no idea of the cost of buying individual insurance now. My premiums have gone up over 500% since I started 20 years ago, with NO discernible relief due to ACA implementation because I am one of the 15% of individuals who are paying full price for their insurance. We are the ones who have no voice in this because we are such a small minority in this country.
Absolutely agree with this. I'm stunned when I think about how we complained about a policy that covered 4 of us for around $700/ month and a deductible per person of $250 each. That seemed astronomical back then.
My understanding is that you qualify for a subsidy if your family income is less than about $90,000 a year. I assume your business income is more than this? In essence you complain about having to pay about $9,600 a year for decent health insurance which covers more than your old plan would have.
One of the problems we have in this country is that a lot of people who were self-employed chose--prior to the ACA--to either have no insurance or bare bones policies that didn't cover much of anything. They simply planned on paying cash--or filing bankruptcy if they got sick. The people who seem to be most upset by the ACA here on this forum are self-employed types. I'd honestly like to know what their insurance arrangement was before the ACA. I bet I am right.
OK, I'll give you my self employed perspective. We've been self employed and buying our own health insurance for five years now.
Prior to the ACA going into effect, we had BCBS insurance with a deductible of I believe $1500 and otherwise decent coverage. It cost us around $575 a month (this was for two adults in their early 50s). Now it's up to over $1000 a month - every year it has jumped in price, except this year, when it didn't increase in price but the benefits were slashed to the bone. Deductibles raised, doctors limited (we're having to change doctors, hospitals, dentists, etc), co pays increased, and no more PPO option unless we pay about $500 MORE PER MONTH. So there you have it.
We don't qualify for any subsidies. Oh but guess what - we have maternity coverage - WOOOHOOO! (I have had a hysterectomy so I doubt we'll be using that). We have pediatric dental coverage! (All our kids are grown but hey, we've got that coverage!).
We also have mental healthcare coverage now, which I may actually use to work through my angst regarding the ACA.
So you feel that 10% of gross income (if 100K) is a reasonable amount to pay for insurance premiums (not healthcare). If that person is in a 30% bracket then they are paying 14% of net income for premiums. Note this is not healthcare. They still have to get past the deductible to begin enjoying any type of "coverage".
How do people make gross generalization such as you did ===>
"group of independent self-employed people who did their best to not think about health insurance much at all. Whether they will realize it or not, they were part of the problem that lead to the ACA."
Right on.
Our insurance only kicks in after we reach our deductible, which is $4500. So basically we pay over $1000 a month PLUS any other medical costs. Basically we have only catastrophic coverage. $12,000 plus a year seems pretty high for catastrophic only coverage to me, but hey...what do I know? I'm just the poor ******* paying for it.
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