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Hi all. I’m looking for opinions and feedback and possibly suggestions on how to proceed as well. I have a female friend, probably my best friend in fact, age 36, who binge drinks. She’ll polish off two separate twelve-packs of nasty Coors Light over the course of a weekend. She’ll order six or eight screwdrivers at a restaurant when someone else is driving when everyone else is having one or two drinks. I personally believe she does this out of a) insecurity, b) boredom, and c) habit. There are a few problems with this behavior.
First, she is an awful drinker, in that she loses IQ points rapidly under the influence, becoming a rather dull idiot, and also becomes increasingly dysphoric, close-minded, argumentative, belligerent, and dismissive (you might argue that’s normal for this drug, but I’ve known many people over the years who could be quite pleasant, congenial, and articulate under the influence of alcohol). I basically don’t like to be around her when she’s drinking any amount (particularly because the dosage seems to keep going up throughout the session without any concept of leveling off at a certain level of effect), though I really enjoy her company when she’s sober (I’m not much more than a casual social drinker – I’ll have a dark craft beer or two or a glass of white wine at a dinner once / week or so).
Second, she has acquired not one but TWO DUI convictions. I’ve bailed her out of jail each time. She now attends mandatory AA meetings, which she has a poor attitude toward due to a) being an atheist and feeling AA is far too Christian-based at least in this area, and b) thinking herself not a hardcore addict who has to drink every day or at any rate not like the alcoholics on the show Intervention. She has an interlock ignition device on her car. This is a great measure, but it comes off in a few months. I personally think it should stay on the car indefinitely but only prevent starting the car (currently it must be blown into every few minutes while driving as well, which is frequently kind of dangerous). But that’s really between she and the state.
She has also alienated a few notable friends because of drinking, and spends a lot of money on alcohol, and the calories involved completely sabotage her efforts to lose weight (she wants to be someone who is fit and does half-marathons and hardcore “boot camp” type workouts but also someone who consumes 3500 excess calories of beer and mixed drinks per week). The bingeing also makes her completely lazy and prone to procrastination and often shoots the whole weekend and her best laid plans to sh|t. And she’s in a mild depression or mid-life crisis, has nightmares about her DUIs, and feels she’s in a rut in her career and as a home-owner.
I believe she has a problem. I am considering suggesting to her that she “switch” from consuming alcohol to using cannabis. This won’t necessarily be any easy sell, to put it lightly. She has never smoked anything in her entire life – no cigarettes, hookah, cannabis, nothing. In fact, she claims, and I believe her, that the only drugs (psychoactive substances) she’s ever used in her life are alcohol and caffeine. She doesn’t really have anything against cannabis, as a few of her Facebook friends are smokers. She’s just never used it and doesn’t think it’s for her (actually probably hasn’t thought a whole lot about it).
So why would I make this suggestion? It’s not because I’m a huge user or anything. I recently tried to recount all the times I’ve ever used it, and came up with only about 21 times in my entire life (I’m 39 years old). But I’m open-minded and fascinated intellectually by it as well as by some of the psychedelics (LSD, DMT, Salvia, etc. – that fascination is the main reason I’m a lurker on sites such as Shroomery or Erowid) and the workings of the mind in general. My lack of use mainly stems from an absence of opportunity and supply throughout most of my life. But what I think it could do for her is give her something a) more productive to use, b) free of calories, c) free of the onus of driving home under its influence (in my mind she would only use cannabis at home and would limit social drinking to having one drink at dinner every now and then), d) that might actually help her expand her mind or work on her mindset or perceptions of her problems or maybe even make tough life choices (switching careers, moving, etc.), and e) that potentially makes her a much more pleasant person to be around or more herself anyway while she’s using.
As far as details go, I don’t really have any way of acquiring cannabis myself, but I believe she could if she asked one of her friends on Facebook. I’ve considered one of the “vaping” machines as a way to get past the stigma (and health issues) of smoking something (I’d even buy it for her for her birthday). One of the varieties of cannabis that gives more energy and creativity (sativa) as opposed to the “couch-lock” feeling (indica) would be more along the lines of what I was thinking.
In the end, this is about harm reduction. I feel like she might eventually end up with that third DUI, but the second DUI, my efforts thus far, AA, her other problems, etc. haven’t exactly impacted her binge drinking or realization that she has a problem beyond the DUI stuff (to be sure, she has no intention of ever getting a third DUI – obviously – but things happen). I feel like alcohol is a hole she keeps digging further that compounds some of the feelings and problems and effects of procrastination she’s trying to avoid by using alcohol. I feel like she won’t give up using a drug, but if we could “switch” her off of the alcohol and onto cannabis, I think this might be the best and most feasible substitution for her, for reasons I’ve already stated, and possibly even helpful in some ways. This isn’t the only change I’m wanting to suggest – I also wanted to introduce her to Meetup.com and see if she wanted to join a few groups, as well as try to get her introduced to some constructive hobbies.
Interested in all perspectives and suggestions, though straight-up condemnation is not appreciated. Thanks!
You are very kind to have come up with this option, but I vote no. Alcohol and Cannabis, even the Indica strain, are not interchangeable.
Alcohol dulls the senses. Cannabis heightens them. Alcohol is a social drug. Cannabis really isn't. There are many other reasons why these substances are different. Not to mention, Texas is one of the most legally punitive states for possession.
Meetups or hobbies won't cut it. You need to read up on AlAnon to understand how you can and cannot help. Your friend is making the typical alcoholic's excuses about her drinking and AA. There are non-religious groups that the state will recognize. Here's one in DFW: States
Okay, I read both versions (long & short) of the original post.
What occurs to me is that the friend uses alcohol in public places to ease social interaction-
and with cannabis, that wouldn't work bc. public venues don't serve (or allow use of) cannabis.
That's not a value judgment by me, that's the sense I have of our culture/society at large.
Do I think it's possible that the friend could switch from alcohol to cannabis ? Sure-maybe, maybe not.
Might that be a good idea ? It could well be, hard to know without experimenting to find out.
I certainly agree that "harm reduction" is a wise principle/value.
Know there are some (no idea the %) folks who have bad reaction to cannabis-
it makes them feel worse, and they don't experience positive/rewarding/reinforcing f/x.
But that is just as true for alcohol.
There are some (again, don't know the %) people who, if they could regularly get cannabis, would give up alcohol entirely.
She doesn't sound like a social drinker to me, sounds like she gets drunk at home by herself too. She's already been in trouble with the law for it, it sounds like a bad idea to get her hooked on an illegal substance rather than a legal (but I agree, equally or more harmful) substance.
I've had friends who were alcoholics. You can't fix them or even really help them, at least I haven't been able to help any of my friends. All you can do is watch their gradual decline.
You are very kind to have come up with this option, but I vote no. Alcohol and Cannabis, even the Indica strain, are not interchangeable.
Alcohol dulls the senses. Cannabis heightens them. Alcohol is a social drug. Cannabis really isn't. There are many other reasons why these substances are different. Not to mention, Texas is one of the most legally punitive states for possession.
Meetups or hobbies won't cut it. You need to read up on AlAnon to understand how you can and cannot help. Your friend is making the typical alcoholic's excuses about her drinking and AA. There are non-religious groups that the state will recognize. Here's one in DFW: States
Thank you for the advice. I am going to suggest a non-religious group, and offer to accompany her (I think that's allowed?). And I'll educate myself on what I can / should do as a friend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloven
What occurs to me is that the friend uses alcohol in public places to ease social interaction-and with cannabis, that wouldn't work bc. public venues don't serve (or allow use of) cannabis.
That's not a value judgment by me, that's the sense I have of our culture/society at large.
Thanks! There's both a social aspect and a loner / home aspect to her drinking. But I take the point, what would stop the out of control public drinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloven
Know there are some (no idea the %) folks who have bad reaction to cannabis-
it makes them feel worse, and they don't experience positive/rewarding/reinforcing f/x.
Quite true. No guarantee she would enjoy it. I never enjoyed the paranoia. I really only appreciated it for its effect on music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog_Mom
She doesn't sound like a social drinker to me, sounds like she gets drunk at home by herself too. She's already been in trouble with the law for it, it sounds like a bad idea to get her hooked on an illegal substance rather than a legal (but I agree, equally or more harmful) substance.
I've had friends who were alcoholics. You can't fix them or even really help them, at least I haven't been able to help any of my friends. All you can do is watch their gradual decline.
That's too bad. I've known her nine years and I think it has gone downhill as she's aged, after she bought her house, and paradoxically after she got the DUIs. Good point about the legal aspect. She can't afford a third strike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_J
People who are alcoholics DO NOT listen to advice from others! Period!
They need to "hit bottom" and decide on their own to stop. And the solution is to stop drugs and alcohol completely - not add another drug to the mix!
You may be able to get her to see a counselor / psychologist?
Or if anything, suggest she sign up for drug/alcohol treatment.
Thanks. I may be able to. I think I'm going to try the non-religious AA as mentioned above. The counselor would be a tough sell but it might be possible. I don't know where bottom is for her. I mean, she has a fairly strong career, she's doing okay financially, she definitely doesn't drink *every* day, etc. Bottom would be a 3rd DUI as that would be the big one. She might be able to go on this way for years, which I think is just a shame -- and I think she secretly wishes she had more hobbies, outside activities. The problem is she has no concept of moderation, it's take the first drink and then keep going until you run out of what you bought or until some jerk (sometimes me) says it's time to go. And she's nigh impossible to reason with when she gets a couple under her belt.
Sometimes I think that show Intervention caused more harm than it prevented. By showing some really awful physically addicted alcoholics it makes all the lesser addicted folks and binge drinkers feel "well, that's not me, I'm not anywhere near as bad as that lady who can't go a day without a liter of vodka." My friend has mentioned she doesn't think AA is for her because she's not a "hardcore" alcoholic like the ones on Intervention. And honestly I don't think she would ever get to that point, but that doesn't mean it's not a debilitating problem.
Your friend sounds like she is compulsive in her habits and i'd think turning her on to marihuana would just open the gates for an ensuing wide range of drugs along with the alcohol.
The woman defines the definition of the term alcoholic,thats the problem that needs to be addressed and not trying to substitute one bad habit for another, she needs to wake up and realize she has a big problem with alcohol at that point there are many resourses she can avail herself of to help rid herself of alcohol addiction.
Your friend sounds like she is compulsive in her habits and i'd think turning her on to marihuana would just open the gates for an ensuing wide range of drugs along with the alcohol.
The woman defines the definition of the term alcoholic,thats the problem that needs to be addressed and not trying to substitute one bad habit for another, she needs to wake up and realize she has a big problem with alcohol at that point there are many resourses she can avail herself of to help rid herself of alcohol addiction.
Yes, this ^^^. She definitely has a huge problem, and an addictive personality, so NO to switching to cannabis or any other substance. I have a great friend who has been a recovering alcoholic for years now, she originally smoked dope and used coke, and "switched" to alcohol. It does no good for someone who is addicted to transfer the addiction, there will still be huge problems. To the OP - QUIT BAILING HER OUT - she is going to have to hit bottom and only then will she get help.
Lets start with alcohol. It is a water soluble substance that can not be stored in the body. It breaks down at a set rate. You can be falling down drunk at midnight and sober by noon the next day. You may have a hangover and sick stomach, but you will be sober. So you can party heavy on Friday and Saturday night, recover on Sunday and be totally fit for work on Monday with no residual booze in your system.
Now, pot. It is fat soluble so can be stored in your fat tissues. It also breaks down at a set rate but the rate is much slower than alcohol, taking days to break down. And it only breaks down when it is in the blood and goes thru the liver. So when you smoke pot, your body stores some of it in the fat. And over the next week the pot leaches back out of the fat. The more you smoke, the more is stored in the fat. For a heavy user, it could take up to a month for it all to leach out and be matabolized. So if you party Friday and Saturday night it will take more than a week for you to test negative. And that is the problem. Even if you do not feel high, you will have enough in your system to test positive.
Now, here is the real problem and it has happened. A cop riding a motorcycle at high speed, lights flashing but no siren runs into the side of a car driven by a woman who had a little pot the day before. She could not hear him coming because he did not have his siren on and there were trees obstructing the view. But since she had pot in her system, she got charged with causing the accident and ended up in prison for two years. The accident was caused by a number of factors but all the jury could focus on was the pot. She had it, the cop died, she went to prison. Not fair but that was the law. And the driving under the influence laws remain unchanged, even in states where pot is legal. You take a big risk using pot and driving, even days later.
Stick to booze if you are substance dependent. At least you sober up in 12 hours. But it would be best to not be dependent on any drug.
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That's too bad. I've known her nine years and I think it has gone downhill as she's aged, after she bought her house, and paradoxically after she got the DUIs. Good point about the legal aspect. She can't afford a third strike.
