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Jaminhealth has made it very clear that she does not "believe" that "synthetic" levothyroxine is exactly the same as the levothyroxine produced by the human thyroid. The reason she uses desiccated thyroid is because she perceives that it is "natural" and any manufactured product is "synthetic". Sorry, but she thinks everyone should be taking desiccated thyroid. because, you know, natural is good, synthetic is bad.
Jaminhealth disparages prescription drugs in multiple posts in multiple threads here on CD.
The human body does produce substances with no activity, including an inactive form of T3. It's a result of biochemistry and the fact that the three dimensional shape of hormones is crucial in the way they work. Therefore, the assumption that apparently inactive hormones must have a purpose is not true.
Unless you have a defect in the process by which T4 is converted to T3 you do not need to take T3. Any question about whether you are making T3 can be answered by measuring T3. Also, the gene for the product that converts T4 is known. Anyone who is curious as to whether he has a mutation in that gene that reduces the ability to convert T4 to T3 can test his DNA with 23AndMe and find out. You can check out a single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) called rs225014 in your personal raw DNA data. (I do not have it. )
The basic philosophy of the sites I have looked at recently that proclaim that "natural" desiccated thyroid is better boils down to the proponents of "natural" desiccated thyroid knowing more than the doctors who treat thyroid disease. I don't think so.
No Suzy don't say what you think I say. I've tried them all starting in 2002. Started with Armour and then an endo wanted me off it and put Syn to me and Cytomel T3....Talk about falling over with fatigue.
I know personally people in my life have done better on NDT...they were on Syn at points in their life.
I never said everyone should be on NDT....tell me where I said that.
This whole thread is about "People still have health issues in spite of the STANDARD of care given"..
It appears today the STANDARD is the synthetics and that is what is pushed on patients by the conventional MD's and HMO's.
One won't find that in the Integrative/Functional Medicine world.
When I finally got on Armour in 2002, no labs, nadda by a smart D.O., those 10 years of miserable depression lifted and NEVER to return. I remember that like it was yesterday.
Then a lowness hit me in 2006, and I found how Vit D deficient.
Don't say what you think I say.
I know you said 21.5million do well on Synthetics....so great that you know that.
And yes, pharma drugs are my last resort. And NDT is script but too bad in many ways as so many can't get it from their narrow/close minded doctors.
But I do believe MOST would be overall healthier taking OPC's..and throw in regular massage work..we'd have healthier and more peaceful population.
Last edited by jaminhealth; 10-30-2016 at 02:06 PM..
Note that the study compared people who were taking medication to people without thyroid disease. It does nothing to answer the question whether desiccated thyroid is better.
The question is, "Who needs to take T3?"
If someone does feels that just T4 is not doing the job then measuring T3 is simple enough to do.
Note that the study compared people who were taking medication to people without thyroid disease. It does nothing to answer the question whether desiccated thyroid is better.
The question is, "Who needs to take T3?"
If someone does feels that just T4 is not doing the job then measuring T3 is simple enough to do.
Oh my....keep reading Suzy.....you don't even know that you need to measure FT3....figure out what THAT is and come back. And read the article I posted.
The "Thr92Ala D2 polymorphism" is the same as the rs225014 SNP I mentioned above. It controls for the enzyme that removes one of the Iodine atoms from T4 to make T3.
Oh my....keep reading Suzy.....you don't even know that you need to measure FT3....figure out what THAT is and come back. And read the article I posted.
Yes, free T3, which is pretty much the only thing a doctor would order these days.
I had already mentioned the genetic mutation that can affect conversion of T4 to T3. Perhaps you need to re-read what I wrote.
Jaminhealth has made it very clear that she does not "believe" that "synthetic" levothyroxine is exactly the same as the levothyroxine produced by the human thyroid. The reason she uses desiccated thyroid is because she perceives that it is "natural" and any manufactured product is "synthetic". Sorry, but she thinks everyone should be taking desiccated thyroid. because, you know, natural is good, synthetic is bad.
Jaminhealth disparages prescription drugs in multiple posts in multiple threads here on CD.
The human body does produce substances with no activity, including an inactive form of T3. It's a result of biochemistry and the fact that the three dimensional shape of hormones is crucial in the way they work. Therefore, the assumption that apparently inactive hormones must have a purpose is not true.
Unless you have a defect in the process by which T4 is converted to T3 you do not need to take T3. Any question about whether you are making T3 can be answered by measuring T3. Also, the gene for the product that converts T4 is known. Anyone who is curious as to whether he has a mutation in that gene that reduces the ability to convert T4 to T3 can test his DNA with 23AndMe and find out. You can check out a single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) called rs225014 in your personal raw DNA data. (I do not have it. )
The basic philosophy of the sites I have looked at recently that proclaim that "natural" desiccated thyroid is better boils down to the proponents of "natural" desiccated thyroid knowing more than the doctors who treat thyroid disease. I don't think so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Yes, free T3, which is pretty much the only thing a doctor would order these days.
I had already mentioned the genetic mutation that can affect conversion of T4 to T3. Perhaps you need to re-read what I wrote.
Such a sly one...you originally refuted the need for ANYONE to need anything other than T4...now you're back pedaling to include those poor misfits who have the mutation.
It's tough to tell your sarcasm....you have such complete disdain.
From what I can see, your hobby consists of finding a controversial medical condition....googling it and ithen becoming an instant expert on ANYTHING.
Suzy - pray tell, what is your medical degree? It would help us to know your background and qualifications since you purport to be so far beyond anyone else commenting.
I must say, as someone whose career was in medical laboratory science, I have appreciated and agreed with many of your posts about health topics on other threads, but you are off the mark on this one. I don't understand your closed-mindedness on this topic.
Please answer me this: Do you really think I should go back to my MD, tell her "I read SuzyQ's posts online, she thinks every hypothyroid patient should be on Synthroid, and not ground up pig thyroid. So would you please put me back on Synthroid alone, even though I didn't feel good on it for 10 years." ??? If you think that is what I should do, please convince me why. if not, then please stop attacking those of us who are trying to educate others about NDT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Suzy, is it your belief that everyone wo is hypothyroid should be on synthetics and no one should be on NDT?
I am interested in Suzy's answer to MissTerri's question, as well as her answer to my question from yesterday.
Suzy, is it your belief that everyone who is hypothyroid should be on synthetics and no one should be on NDT?
I am not convinced that desiccated thyroid is better. Those here who use it are the same people who are heavy into alternative medicine and who are convinced "natural" is better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne
Please answer me this: Do you really think I should go back to my MD, tell her "I read SuzyQ's posts online, she thinks every hypothyroid patient should be on Synthroid, and not ground up pig thyroid. So would you please put me back on Synthroid alone, even though I didn't feel good on it for 10 years." ??? If you think that is what I should do, please convince me why. if not, then please stop attacking those of us who are trying to educate others about NDT.
No, you may do whatever you want to do. See below why I do not think desiccated thyroid is the best thing since sliced bread and why you maybe should not be promoting its use to others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
Such a sly one...you originally refuted the need for ANYONE to need anything other than T4...now you're back pedaling to include those poor misfits who have the mutation.
It's tough to tell your sarcasm....you have such complete disdain.
From what I can see, your hobby consists of finding a controversial medical condition....googling it and ithen becoming an instant expert on ANYTHING.
Suzy - pray tell, what is your medical degree? It would help us to know your background and qualifications since you purport to be so far beyond anyone else commenting.
People who cannot convert T4 to T3 are "poor misfits"? I see. Do you have any evidence that desiccated thyroid is any better for them than "synthetic" T4 plus T3?
I have not "originally refuted the need for ANYONE to need anything other than T4".
In fact, I specifically said, several times, is
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
I am merely pointing out that levothyroxine sold as Synthroid and various generics is exactly the same hormone that the human thyroid produces. Just because it is produced in a manufacturing facility does not make it less "natural" than what the thyroid makes. They are identical. The body cannot tell them apart.
The vast majority of people who take levothyroxine will convert it to T3 without any difficulty and will be satisfied with it the same way I am.
I have a bachelor's degree and a graduate degree in biologic sciences. I have taken both undergraduate and graduate courses in human physiology and have considerable experience in reading primary sources about various issues in human physiology. I use Google to try to find articles that the majority of readers here can understand. I post on such topics here because the amount of pseudoscience I see is absolutely mind boggling.
In this thread alone I see the "doctors don't know anything about thyroid disease" theme. They do. "TSH is worthless". It's not, unless perhaps you have a pituitary problem rather than a primary thyroid problem, and if you do you should know it. The original poster pushes iodine, when too much iodine can make hypothyroidism worse.
Then there is the topic of the thread, that desiccated thyroid is better and doctors do not know anything about it and refuse to prescribe it because they are ignorant. That's not true, either.
I suspect the original poster has not got a clue what the actual standard of care is for treating hypothyroidism. Here are recent guidelines and the reasoning behind them. I guarantee that the combined expertise of the authors exceeds that of all the "natural" desiccated thyroid proponents on the web. It's 41 pages, including 311 references. Yes, I read it. It explains exactly how TSH measurements are used, the nuances of T4 and T3, and why desiccated thyroid is not the standard of care. It was not industry funded. Only one author lists a commercial link, and that is to Abbott Nutrition, which does not make any thyroid products. It makes things like Pedialyte and Ensure.
"Conclusions: Fifty-two evidence-based recommendations and subrecommendations were developed to aid in the care of patients with hypothyroidism and to share what the authors believe is current, rational, and optimal medical practice for the diagnosis and care of hypothyroidism. A serum thyrotropin is the single best screening test for primary thyroid dysfunction for the vast majority of outpatient clinical situations. The standard treatment is replacement with L-thyroxine. The decision to treat subclinical hypothyroidism when the serum thyrotropin is less than 10 mIU/L should be tailored to the individual patient."
This article is about the issue of prescribing T4 alone or combination of T3 and T4.
"Conclusions: We concluded that levothyroxine should remain the standard of care for treating hypothyroidism. We found no consistently strong evidence for the superiority of alternative preparations (e.g., levothyroxine–liothyronine combination therapy, or thyroid extract therapy, or others) over monotherapy with levothyroxine, in improving health outcomes. Some examples of future research needs include the development of superior biomarkers of euthyroidism to supplement thyrotropin measurements, mechanistic research on serum triiodothyronine levels (including effects of age and disease status, relationship with tissue concentrations, as well as potential therapeutic targeting), and long-term outcome clinical trials testing combination therapy or thyroid extracts (including subgroup effects). Additional research is also needed to develop thyroid hormone analogs with a favorable benefit to risk profile."
Just FYI, everyone, if you are trying to get pregnant or are pregnant you should not take desiccated thyroid and should not take large amounts of iodine. Please consult an endocrinologist, not Google.
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Do you have any evidence that desiccated thyroid is any better for them than "synthetic" T4 plus T3?