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Old 10-09-2010, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Michigan
5,376 posts, read 5,349,598 times
Reputation: 1633

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Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Please do so it you can.

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government." --Thomas Jefferson, letter to The Republican Citizens of Washington County, Maryland, 1809
Did he say it? Well in playing the context game, no he did not. (but please read the rest of my post before going postal)


Well Roy, the first issue is with the usage of "Republican Citizens" since at the time they were "Democratic-Republicans" aka Jeffersonian Republicans. The linage party today is the democrats. But he did use it in the letter, so it is. But it is not referring to those who are current republicans.



Next issue, is Jefferson didn't write in bullet points. And when one pulls a sentence out of his writings, the context of the letter is missing. Since this letter was about his retirement from public service, is it a statement that was intended to stand alone?

So did he write that (he didn't say it). Yes. But was it supposed to be a political calling card. No.

http://memory.loc.gov/master/mss/mtj.../1000/1023.jpg

Read the whole letter. And make your own judgment based on the context of the whole letter, and not today's usage of a few of the words.

My take on it.

The founding of the coutry was beacuse of the lack of "care for human life and happiness" of it's citizens by the British Government.

Roy, What do you think the letter said or meant?

Last edited by plannine; 10-09-2010 at 07:35 AM..

 
Old 10-09-2010, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,265,891 times
Reputation: 6920
Like the devil, today's Republican will quote Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers to their own devices. Here's the letter in printed form:

The writings of Thomas Jefferson ... - Google Books

I'd venture that Jefferson would have taken great umbrage with today's military/industrial complex and the influence of big business over our government, both of which modern Republicans embrace and perpetuate.
 
Old 10-09-2010, 08:36 AM
 
2,319 posts, read 4,806,037 times
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CAVA, I think you're spot on, but I also think Jefferson would stroke out over the spending by both parties, the incessant questioning of Obama's religious views, and the reliance on foreign powers for everything from toothbrushes to fruit to oil. I'm not a Jeffersonian historian, but I doubt he'd like what he saw if he could suddenly come back to life.
 
Old 10-09-2010, 01:22 PM
 
1,535 posts, read 2,063,414 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by peppermint View Post
CAVA, I think you're spot on, but I also think Jefferson would stroke out over the spending by both parties, the incessant questioning of Obama's religious views, and the reliance on foreign powers for everything from toothbrushes to fruit to oil. I'm not a Jeffersonian historian, but I doubt he'd like what he saw if he could suddenly come back to life.
I think that if Jefferson saw a black president he would drop over dead from the mere sight of him. And that is no compliment to Jefferson.
 
Old 10-09-2010, 02:13 PM
 
2,319 posts, read 4,806,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterinAmerica View Post
I think that if Jefferson saw a black president he would drop over dead from the mere sight of him. And that is no compliment to Jefferson.
hahaha! That's a good point! Talk about missing the obvious!
 
Old 10-09-2010, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,141,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterinAmerica View Post
I think that if Jefferson saw a black president he would drop over dead from the mere sight of him. And that is no compliment to Jefferson.
Wouldn't a chronologically transplanted Jefferson be going around saying...

"AAAAEEEE!! Iron bird in the sky!"

"God in heaven! That woman is hardly wearing a thing!"

"The name is Jefferson, not 'Dude'"

"Where is the horse that pulls that carriage??"

The dislocation and discombobulation he would be experiencing might well make a black president something far down on the list of astonishments.
 
Old 10-09-2010, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Michigan
5,376 posts, read 5,349,598 times
Reputation: 1633
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Like the devil, today's Republican will quote Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers to their own devices. Here's the letter in printed form:

The writings of Thomas Jefferson ... - Google Books

I'd venture that Jefferson would have taken great umbrage with today's military/industrial complex and the influence of big business over our government, both of which modern Republicans embrace and perpetuate.

thanks for finding that - all i could find was the image of the document, and that was hard to read.
 
Old 10-09-2010, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,265,891 times
Reputation: 6920
Quote:
Originally Posted by plannine View Post
thanks for finding that - all i could find was the image of the document, and that was hard to read.
Funny, I was thinking how cool it was that you posted the original hand written document. Thanks back at you.
 
Old 10-09-2010, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,265,891 times
Reputation: 6920
Quote:
Originally Posted by peppermint View Post
CAVA, I think you're spot on, but I also think Jefferson would stroke out over the spending by both parties, the incessant questioning of Obama's religious views, and the reliance on foreign powers for everything from toothbrushes to fruit to oil. I'm not a Jeffersonian historian, but I doubt he'd like what he saw if he could suddenly come back to life.
On the flip side, I think the Founding Fathers would be amazed how this ragtag collection of states they cobbled together into a nation had become the most powerful on the planet and would be blown away at how revered they still are over 200 years later. However, I think Mr. Jefferson would be most ecstatic with what's become of the university he founded. Keep in mind, president of the United States is not among the accomplishments carved on his headstone at Monticello at his request. Father of the University, and Author of the Declaration of Independence and the Virginia Statute for Religious Rreedom were his proudest achievements.

I get tired of Republican politicians who distort the Founders' philosophies to further their petty agendas. Mr. Jefferson's writings in their grimey hands is the proverbial pearls before swine.

Last edited by CAVA1990; 10-09-2010 at 04:46 PM..
 
Old 10-10-2010, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 87,022,277 times
Reputation: 36644
You'd need the context. It could reflect very differently on his general philosophy, to know whether he was talking about war, or public assistance. Or abortion, or bailing out mortgage bankers. Or capital punishment or airport security or tariffs on Chinese-made goods. Without knowing that context, it would be irrelevant whether he said the words or not, and a gross miscarriage of history to apply them to any contemporary issue.
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