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As in "go to the US and talk to people" about say...liberalism. They'll tell you what they think about it. So whom should I ask ( and more important - whom should I believe) regarding their opinion on liberalism? The "Tea party" folks or the democrats? Same with the Russians - they'd express different opinions on a subject - you can see it even on the internet.
So what am I supposed to post instead? Some questionable information brought from some obscure sites?
Because I see a tendency on the internet ( and not on the internet only) promoting "Jewish conspiracy" that Jews did this or Jews did that. Like Jews were the ones who organized the Bolshevik revolution or that Jews are behind the current economic downturn in the US ( or elsewhere) since they are the driving force behind the banking system. Oh, and what's more interesting, while Ukrainians are accusing Jews in creation of Holodomor, the Russians are condemning Jews for the collapse of the Soviet Union.Go figure.
No, no conspiracy again - lol. The reason behind it was quite simple; unlike the Western European countries Russia historically didn't have a middle class ( or practically didn't have it.)
Russian intellectuals ( or "intelligentsia") were really the ones who were the think-tank behind the revolution. Jews were the inseparable part of this class, hence no surprise that so many of them were accepted for the leading roles. That doesn't mean however that they were really the ones who stood behind the whole concept and organization of it, in the same manner as plenty of Jews were involved in a theft of huge amount of money from Russia via the international banking system back in the 90ies, but if you scratch the surface, it was the Russian KGB generals who were really behind it. So you are ascribing Jews much more power and influence that they've really had.
Opinion is just opinion. You don't have any sources. Yet you call mine "obscure". I could go to some real Russian sources, I am sure, but then I'd have to get them translated.
You seem to want to absolve, and history doesn't absolve like that.
Actually, Germany was in terrible financial shape before Hitler took power, and the Jews controlled the banking and finance industries.
Actually, Germany was in terrible "financial shape" before Hitler came to power - that's true, but it had nothing to do with Jews - (ever heard of Versailles?)
( Ughm, sorry - yet another referral to a "neutral source.")
Opinion is just opinion. You don't have any sources. Yet you call mine "obscure". I could go to some real Russian sources, I am sure, but then I'd have to get them translated.
So... what's stopping you?
Quote:
You seem to want to absolve, and history doesn't absolve like that.
"Absolve" what?
I don't want to absolve anything, I simply prefer to not to touch controversial subjects, where I have neither full ( and well-rounded) account of the event, nor do I have an access to the government's archives.
My impression is that there was even less interest in the fate of the gypies and Sinta, and that they were loathed far more than the Jews.
There was at least some interest in the U.S., for example, in the persecution of the Jews, and some were even able to emigrate and find jobs in the arts and education.
How many gypsies and Sinta did we admit? How many Europeans were heroic enough to attempt to shield gypsies. Is there a gypsy Ann Frank?
There is so little interest in their fate that I sometimes wonder if Americans and Europeans don't see them even now as creatures of no importance.
The key to many eastern peoples was that they were not the merchants and owners of buisiness that jews where and targeted for taking that wealth and for blame. They were easily blamed for rejecting lesus amoung christian western conutries and easily blamed for beng his murders.Of course this also made them a group that kept to themselves because of it and even easier targets. Gypsies wee really thought of as thefts around euroepes and mnay stil do but not the threat that jews were. In fact wall street was thought of as jewish controlled by many in the great depression and to blame for it. History is full of scape goats presecuted but in modern times the jews where actually picked to be eliminated by a supposed civilized western nation. That is what we can't quite ever come to gripes with as they say.
And I don't think anyone can be called anti-semitic becoz of stating some facts. Unfortunately, the anti-semitism card has become some form of pro-active and offensive defence mechanism put in place to silence critics. Jewish folks and their adorers are adept at that mechanism
Regardless, 2 wrongs don't make a right. there are people I KNOW are guilty of evil things done to me personally, yet I don't go trying to get vengenance.
Just because some Jewish people "may" have been involved in 1932...doesn't give anyone (individual or country) the right to take revenge against a whole group of innocent people. If that was really Hitler's reason (which I doubt it was his only one) then he's guilty of being childish on top of everything else.
The human race should be so much better than that.
I have heard about The Forced Famine in Ukraine. I have been to Ukraine BTW and stood in front of the monument to those who were killed during that time.
Ukraine has had many enemies over the year. The Jewish people were not among them.Nazi forces killed and enslaved many Ukrainian people during WWII, Jew and Christian alike.
The Nazi's had no regard for Slavs either BTW, considering them "one step above Jews" The master plan was to use Slavs in the Final Solution, then to use them as a "class of slaves"
The Nazi's also misinterpreted the word 'Slav" meaning "glorious" to mean "slave."
I am not sure why in a post about the treatment of Jews in Europe you feel compelled to bring up other atrocities. Sadly, there are many through out history.
And before I get "accused" of being Jewish, I am not. In fact I am a Lutheran, who is partially of GERMAN decent.
Since Jews were not treated well all across Europe, why would it surprise you if some Jewish people attempted to align them selves with a new form of government that promised equality and justice for all citizens?
While in Ukraine I also visited Baba Yar. Do you know what that is?
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Same with the Russians - they'd express different opinions on a subject - you can see it even on the internet.
Go figure.
