Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well lest we forget some other aspects of your history; Japan had intended to declare war but if we are to believe them, a mix-up in communications to their ambassador resulted in Pearl Harbour being attacked before the declaration was in U.S. hands.
I say who gives a chit; they intended that attack to be a surprise, nothing less, so if the declaration had arrived in a timely manner what difference would it have ultimately made. No time was given for Pearl to prepare either way.
That little tid-bit set the tone for what was to follow. Ask some of those other islands that were occupied by Japanese soldiers, to endure years of servitude rape and many other atocities, if you should feel guilt over that bomb thingy. I'd bet on them telling you not to waste your time feeling any guilt at all.
Surrender was always possible but during the last days the military were too absorbed in shielding the Emperor from the gravity of the situation so he had no realistic grasp of what was coming at him regardless of bomb or not.
Lastly; have they or their Emperor ever apologized for any of the terrible war crimes committed in their name. Not once!
Don't lose any sleep over that bomb decision. I'm sure enough sleep was lost by your leaders 67 years ago making the decision.
It would have been an absolute bloodbath had we been forced to invade the mainland. I firmly believe those two bombs saved an awful lot of lives on both sides. Sad that so many civilians had to be killed, scarred, or forced to endure the subsequent radiation. Nothing ever works out exactly as you would like it to. It was a calculated decision to utilize the bombs, and the right choice in my opinion.
That little tid-bit set the tone for what was to follow. Ask some of those other islands that were occupied by Japanese soldiers, to endure years of servitude rape and many other atrocities, if you should feel guilt over that bomb thingy. I'd bet on them telling you not to waste your time feeling any guilt at all.
My Filipino father-in-law hated the Japs until his dying day.
So when you got home from work and that pyscho that just hacked your two children and your wife to pieces is still in your house and laughs at you...........I suppose you would do him no harm......after all,two wrongs would not make a right.........
Moral agency is exactly what I am talking about, thank you. A decision using all the known factors at the time, including morality, resulted in the deaths of innocents and saved many more innocents.
Let's be crystal clear about one thing: the decision did not merely result in the deaths of innocents, it intended the deaths of innocents. Therein lies the evil of the act.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714
Lets not forget that INDECISION, the easy choice, the lazy choice, the morally ambigous choice, also results in death. That is also a moral choice. Those the refuse to take action are not morally excused by any means. They have blood on their hands.
When you find the idiot who says indecision was the best choice, give him a good swift kick for me. Until then try arguing with me instead of the straw man in your head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714
Historically, these were the options in used the atomic bomb in the war in 1945, along with expected casualty figures. These can be arguably supported even today:
1.) Option one - Drop atomic bomb in 1945. Casualties - approx 200,000
2.) Option two - No atomic bomb dropped. Invasion of Japanese mainland, Operation Downfall, occurs in 1946. Casualties - 1 to 4 million allied casualties, including over 250,000 American fatalities. Japanes casualties as high as 20 million.
3.) Option three - No action - Almost inconceivable option at the time. Casualties - Casualty rates would have to consider military actions still occuring in China and other parts of Asia, civilians attrocities and crmies against POW's, and civilian deaths in Japan and occupied areas due to starvation and deseise. As has been indicated, Chinese were being executed as about 1 million lives a year. You do the math. I have no doubt a continuing "stalled" war was causing at least 100,000 fatalities a month in the pacific theater due to all war related factors.
First, according to these men who knew a little more than you or me about the situation, Japanese surrender was imminent and not even a land invasion was necessary. Second, even if surrender were not imminent, it isn't clear that a final land invasion or inaction were the only two alternatives to atomic bombs. Third, even in the event of a land invasion, the casualty estimates seem way overblown (20 million Japanese casualties? At the time there were already 8,000,000 refugees crowded in rural villages due to the destruction of cities.) Finally - and this is the only point that really matters - indiscriminately targeting 80,000 effective non-combatants (whether "potential" combatants or not) is a "decision" that should never have been on the table in the first place.
So when you got home from work and that pyscho that just hacked your two children and your wife to pieces is still in your house and laughs at you...........I suppose you would do him no harm......after all,two wrongs would not make a right.........
Nice try, I guess, for someone doing this for the first time.
It would be right to kill the psycho.
It would be wrong to kill his wife and children because they packed his lunch that day.
Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 08-06-2012 at 06:07 PM..
My Filipino father-in-law hated the Japs until his dying day.
He was not alone. Every single inhabitant of any of those Islands passed that hatred down to their progney to the extent you'll find the same characterisitcs as the Dutch feelings towards the Germans. Tolerance perhaps. Business and commerce, perhaps. Forgiveness or understanding melding into a possible friendship; never! There are sure to be the very rare exceptions but, not in any quantifiable numbers.
Those folks take the "Lest we forget" very seriously indeed.
Even the scientists who engineered the atomic bombs were not fully aware of the long term effects of the radiation poisoning. They thought it would be a very short lived thing.
He was not alone. Every single inhabitant of any of those Islands passed that hatred down to their progney to the extent you'll find the same characterisitcs as the Dutch feelings towards the Germans. Tolerance perhaps. Business and commerce, perhaps. Forgiveness or understanding melding into a possible friendship; never! There are sure to be the very rare exceptions but, not in any quantifiable numbers.
Those folks take the "Lest we forget" very seriously indeed.
Can you imagine the hell Truman would have caught had he not used the bomb while Allied soldiers continued to die in the war in the Pacific and it was found out he had the means to end the war and failed to do so?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
