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What people who were 'in camp' have told me is that, while life there was bad, in many cases coming home was worse. Many came back to vandalized homes, trashed businesses, hateful graffiti. And then, while rebuilding their lives, they got to spend decades hearing all the excuses: it was for their protection, it was justified due to the war, blah, blah, blah. Some are still trying to sell that baloney. The apology came after too many had passed on, far too late.
I'd guess that the least understood fact about the internment is this: while many were U.S. nationals, many who were not citizens had not been permitted to seek U.S. citizenship--and yes, it was for racial reasons. While we can't know how what percentage would have become citizens at the first opportunity on a race-blind playing field, based upon the outcome I would say the overwhelming majority of Issei wanted to enjoy the citizenship to which their Nisei children had been born. Thus, if not for bigoted laws, nearly everyone interned would in my view have been a U.S. national. Here's why I believe this: of all those interned (incarcerated would be just as fair a term), their reaction to the Oath speaks volumes. Many signed, even though it contained implied insult to their loyalty. Those who did not, generally refused because they refused to acknowledge the validity of the implied insult. If you were never disloyal, you have no disloyalties to renounce. But on top of that, at the end, only a very few did what I expect I would have done after such an experience: emigrate/return to Japan. Lock me up for four years and refuse to let me show my loyalty in a tangible way, for no reason other than something I cannot change about my heritage, and my loyalty is quite fairly forfeited. And yet few felt that way. That alone ought to have earned an apology far sooner.
As for the terminology, let's not be dogmatic. The concept of 'concentration camp' changed forever when the 'extermination camp' came into play, and the two became conflated in the public mind. At the time, it was called internment. 'Concentration camp' is a poisoned term thanks to the conflation. 'Incarceration camp' would be perfectly fair, especially with guard towers and machineguns aimed into the grounds. 'Prison camp' seems fair to me. But whatever we call them, they were what they were, and all but the most pigheaded now realize that they were a tremendous injustice perpetrated by enormous misunderstanding, fundamental racism, and wartime paranoia.
This is exactly why. Hawaii was placed under marital law, essentially, during WWII, though, so life there wasn't sunshine and roses for people.
Hawaii's residents were legally required to get married?
(Sorry, I couldn't resist. I know it was a typo and you meant martial.)
If anyone is interested in a children's book that deals with the internment, I would recommend So Far From the Sea by Eve Bunting and illustrated by Chris Soentpiet.
You have to remember both the times, and the experience with the Japanese people that was unfairly projected onto Japanese-Americans. First remember that the Empire of Japan had just committed an attack on a country at peace, killing over 2000 of our citizens. In addition, we were aware of the brutality and savagery of Japanese culture at the time. The invasion of China by the Japanese, the savagery towards the Chinese people that resulted in the slaughter of some 20 million (mostly civilians), culminating with the Rape of Nanking did little to generate sympathy. The torture and slaughter of American POWs along with the Batan Death March solidified those concerns, as did the medical experiments carried out on prisoners. It was hard to imagine a culture as barbaric. And (again unfairly) those concerns and that level of disgust were projected onto Japanese Americans.
The savagery of the Japanese during WWII was every bit as barbaric as that of Muslims today (in the form of ISIS/ISIL, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Boko Haram, the Taliban, etc).
You have to remember both the times, and the experience with the Japanese people that was unfairly projected onto Japanese-Americans. First remember that the Empire of Japan had just committed an attack on a country at peace, killing over 2000 of our citizens. In addition, we were aware of the brutality and savagery of Japanese culture at the time. The invasion of China by the Japanese, the savagery towards the Chinese people that resulted in the slaughter of some 20 million (mostly civilians), culminating with the Rape of Nanking did little to generate sympathy. The torture and slaughter of American POWs along with the Batan Death March solidified those concerns, as did the medical experiments carried out on prisoners. It was hard to imagine a culture as barbaric. And (again unfairly) those concerns and that level of disgust were projected onto Japanese Americans.
The savagery of the Japanese during WWII was every bit as barbaric as that of Muslims today (in the form of ISIS/ISIL, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Boko Haram, the Taliban, etc).
And so American Muslims were also being unfairly painted with a broad brush right after 9-11. It's no accident that Asian American advocacy groups such as the JACL were among the first to call for not trying to demonize and persecute Muslim Americans at the time.
And so American Muslims were also being unfairly painted with a broad brush right after 9-11. It's no accident that Asian American advocacy groups such as the JACL were among the first to call for not trying to demonize and persecute Muslim Americans at the time.
That's true. However, it is equally true that a significant number (though perhaps not a large percentage) of Muslim Americans are leaving the US, joining and fighting for ISIS/IS, and even worse some are then being allowed to return to the US. Even worse, a greater number both express sympathy for, and in some cases are providing financial support for terrorist groups.
It's one thing when they are American citizens. They are entitled to the same rights and protections as other Americans. What is particularly foolish is importing Muslims with no ties or loyalties to America, from the most violent societies on earth, with no skills and with a culture that has no place in this country. AFAIK we did not import Nazis during WWII and allow them free reign of this country. Because, well, that would have been STUPID if not suicidal, and an act of treason.
I have read that only 5-10% of Muslims are active Islamists (active violent Jihadists or direct supporters). However...only 7% of Germans were Nazis. How'd that work out again? And there are a hell of a lot more Muslims than Nazis.
All of really doesn't belong in the History forum...until the OP linked them.
I have read that only 5-10% of Muslims are active Islamists (active violent Jihadists or direct supporters). However...only 7% of Germans were Nazis. How'd that work out again? And there are a hell of a lot more Muslims than Nazis.
In the 1932 German elections, the Nazis won 33% of the vote. Elections were restricted after that, making party affiliations superfluous. Your numbers are inaccurate.
In the 1932 German elections, the Nazis won 33% of the vote. Elections were restricted after that, making party affiliations superfluous. Your numbers are inaccurate.
Nazi party membership peaked at 8 million, out of a population of ~80million, for a MAXIMUM of 10%. Your argument is, if not a lie, and attempt to distort the truth.
I googled '7%of Germans were Nazis' and the link I posted is the first one that came up. Please point me to a source that says the Nazis did not win a third of the vote in 1932, indicating that I lied. Or admit you are wrong.
Nazi party membership peaked at 8 million, out of a population of ~80million, for a MAXIMUM of 10%. Your argument is, if not a lie, and attempt to distort the truth.
Well, early in WW2 according to Diedrich Orlow there were 6.5M registered members of the Nazi party, out of 69.8 Million Germans, that's ~10% (9.3% for the pedantic), however only Adults could join the Nazi Party, reducing the numbers to 52M over the age of 15, for 12.5%, and of course in 1941 it's unclear whether the German population was recorded as people living in Germany, or people living in Germany, and the annexed territories of Austria and parts of Czechoslovakia, and people who were not German (like Poles, Russians, any non-Germans) who were living in Germany but were concerned with the risk of stating their actual nationality in the 1939 census, so the figure could be a lot higher than 12.5%.
However that's like saying that the only republicans or liberals in the US are members of the GOP, or Democratic party. Is this a reasonable argument? Not really, that would imply that only 9.5% of the population are Republicans and only 13.5% of the population are Democrats. So the remaining 77% are independents, were that the case there would be far more independents in Congress and the Senate and probably the Presidency than we currently have.
BTW Kurt Schilling was suspended by ESPN for originating that factoid, it's only accurate if you have an incredibly narrow metric for what constituted a Nazi, and by those metrics, we only have in the US 9.5% support for the GOP, and 13.5% support for the Democrats.
Now with Muslims we can only really consider, by the metric you're using, that there are 100,000 extremists (those people who are affiliated in various groups known to be Muslim extremist groups, al-Quaeda, al-Nusra, Hamas, ISIL, etc.), out of 1.6B people, that's a grand total of 0.00625%.
Back to topic, the Internment of Americans of Japanese extraction is rightly a complete travesty of justice and shows just how fragile our rights are. The people who were interned were not Japanese they were American, Americans are not white people, they are people who were born or naturalized in the US from whatever race or ethnic extraction their parents have.
I have read that only 5-10% of Muslims are active Islamists (active violent Jihadists or direct supporters). However...only 7% of Germans were Nazis. How'd that work out again? And there are a hell of a lot more Muslims than Nazis.
Nazi party membership peaked at 8 million, out of a population of ~80million, for a MAXIMUM of 10%. Your argument is, if not a lie, and attempt to distort the truth.
'I have read'? Maybe your historical reading shouldn't include tweets from ex-ballplayers - Curt Schilling is a rather dubious source of information.
This is the apparent nonsense you're referencing:
You barely even changed the trite HOW'D THAT GO? to HOW'D THAT WORK OUT AGAIN?.
Now, let's dig into the... ahem, 'substance'... of your regurgitated assertion.
First, your 80 million figure for Germany's population apparently comes from 1939, because before Germany gobbled up Austria and the Sudetenland and Memel and a few other random bits of territory, it had fewer than 70 million people. So you're inflating the pool using conquered peoples as a measure of how many 'Germans' were Nazis. But the German census of 1933 pegged the population at 65 million - and there wasn't that much natural increase in Germany proper over the next six years. Further, since party membership required one to be of age 18, that left 15 million Germans ineligible, reducing the possible pool of potential German Nazi members to not much more than 50 million. Also, your comparison is between - as you wrote - those who support Islamist movements and only those who were officially Nazi Party members. You lump supporters of Islamist organizations to get your number of radical Muslims while intentionally disregarding those Germans who never got a Nazi membership card but nonetheless were ardent supporters of the movement. And your 5-10% stat? Well, go ahead and substantiate that. And "But... some ballplayer tweeted it out!" is not substantiation.
Let me quote you: "Your argument is, if not a lie, and attempt to distort the truth."
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