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Old 05-07-2022, 08:11 PM
 
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No. Stalin actually did very good job raising that country from ashes to the superpower position. Besides, Lenin had syphilis, badly influencing his mental capacities and, pretty much, vegetated in Gorki his last year.
It was unfortunate legacy of one Leon Bronstein, that ruined it, starting with Khrushchev, who was trotskist.

Party elite got too much fat and taste for luxuries and passion of the early revolutionaries, Lenin included, was long lost. They became too mercantile, too full of themselves, to preserve the legacy. Sold country to the west for personal gains.
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Old 05-08-2022, 11:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dodster View Post
Is this after the US/German invasion of Russia in 1946?
Before, during and after, LOL.
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Old 05-08-2022, 11:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
No. Stalin actually did very good job raising that country from ashes to the superpower position.
Absolutely, er um, if you don't count the 30+ million whose backs he broke doing it. Nothing like a little historical revisionism to brighten the day.
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Old 05-08-2022, 12:58 PM
 
2,634 posts, read 2,679,942 times
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Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
i think Stalin was smarter practical politician than Lenin, Lenin was a great theoretic.
USSR was eaten up by deep state, state Andropov would not help.
I think this is the inescapable reality of any socialist system. It’s thought out by the smart people who do not understand human nature. Inevitably, a socialist system always favors the rise of a brutish dictator to enact its policies. The means of production being in the hands of the state, and the state deciding the needs of the people is ideal for a totalitarian government.

For their time and place, I suppose Lenin and Trotsky appear to have more goodwill and intelligence than a Stalin, but they were also brutish monsters.

“Comrades! The kulak uprising in your five districts must be crushed without pity ... You must make example of these people.

(1) Hang (I mean hang publicly, so that people see it) at least 100 kulaks, rich bastards, and known bloodsuckers.
(2) Publish their names.
(3) Seize all their grain.
(4) Single out the hostages per my instructions in yesterday's telegram.
Do all this so that for miles around people see it all, understand it, tremble, and tell themselves that we are killing the bloodthirsty kulaks and that we will continue to do so ...

Yours, Lenin.

Lenin: "It is necessary – secretly and urgently to prepare the terror."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror

Trotsky also wrote justifications for the Red Terror.
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Old 05-08-2022, 01:10 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,178,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBear View Post
It is very possible that Stalin had a hand in the early passing of Lenin. He sure took the reins of power quickly after he died, and it took Lenin a little while to die, and Stalin never hesitated to dispose of anyone in his way by whatever means necessary. Even Rasputin was poisoned first.

Lenin also had no problem disposing of people that disagreed with him, he may have been a little more enlightened economically, but communism was his guiding light, so an open economy would never have happened.
If it weren't for the endless resources of the Russian land, the soviet union would have bitten the dust in the 50s.

Andropov was just another in a long line of communist dictators. He would have starved more people, sent more to camps, but it wouldn't have masked the empty shell that was communist Russia. It was dying from the day it started.

You can only rape a country for so long, kill the citizens for so long, rule by terror for so long until the house of cards falls down.

If it weren't for Stalin killing millions of people and ruling by complete terror for so long, the USSR would have collapsed from within long before it did.
It just may be that Stalin was not that bloodthirsty : deep state, after death of Stalin put a lot of their sins onto his shoulders.
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Old 05-08-2022, 01:18 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,178,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRunner View Post
I think this is the inescapable reality of any socialist system. It’s thought out by the smart people who do not understand human nature. Inevitably, a socialist system always favors the rise of a brutish dictator to enact its policies. The means of production being in the hands of the state, and the state deciding the needs of the people is ideal for a totalitarian government.

For their time and place, I suppose Lenin and Trotsky appear to have more goodwill and intelligence than a Stalin, but they were also brutish monsters.

“Comrades! The kulak uprising in your five districts must be crushed without pity ... You must make example of these people.

(1) Hang (I mean hang publicly, so that people see it) at least 100 kulaks, rich bastards, and known bloodsuckers.
(2) Publish their names.
(3) Seize all their grain.
(4) Single out the hostages per my instructions in yesterday's telegram.
Do all this so that for miles around people see it all, understand it, tremble, and tell themselves that we are killing the bloodthirsty kulaks and that we will continue to do so ...

Yours, Lenin.

Lenin: "It is necessary – secretly and urgently to prepare the terror."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror

Trotsky also wrote justifications for the Red Terror.
Deep state including some old ' comrades' and military formed opposition to Stalin, very early , especially Trotsky who managed to author the future neocons here in the west.
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Old 05-09-2022, 03:33 AM
 
Location: Southwest
2,599 posts, read 2,325,568 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
...It was unfortunate legacy of one Leon Bronstein, that ruined it, starting with Khrushchev, who was trotskist...
I had an acquaintance who knew one of Mr. Bronstein's great-granddaughters. I thought his original first name was Lev.
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Old 05-31-2022, 01:42 PM
 
6,084 posts, read 6,048,136 times
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Actually the Lenista movement survived the death of its namesake, remember Lenin started out as a media propagandist for the revolutionary democratic socialist movements like the Sparta in Alemani (though there are debates & disputes of what he true relation to the Alemi empire was).

It was only when the Soviets had to divert much of their budget to the military during & after the Iberian fiasco that many of the Lenistas withered away in the Soviet bloc.
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Old 06-02-2022, 09:45 AM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,178,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Actually the Lenista movement survived the death of its namesake, remember Lenin started out as a media propagandist for the revolutionary democratic socialist movements like the Sparta in Alemani (though there are debates & disputes of what he true relation to the Alemi empire was).

It was only when the Soviets had to divert much of their budget to the military during & after the Iberian fiasco that many of the Lenistas withered away in the Soviet bloc.
it was basically rather Stalin with his Industrialisation that pulled USSR through ...
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Old 06-02-2022, 05:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
it was basically rather Stalin with his Industrialisation that pulled USSR through ...

Yes, I have often made the point in many a debate, that the Soviet bloc would've have been annihilated without the Stalinist strong arming.
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