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We have been looking for new sofa sets for our living room and after going to Ashleys, Raymour & Flanigan and Macys furniture stores, the only ones we liked so far were a set of Chateau d'Ax. I have never heard of them before but I checked with two sales associates and they both mentioned that its a very good brand, comparable to Natuzzi. I placed an order but have the delivery is set out a month from now because I need time to research and cancel in case the brand has negative reviews.
I looked up online and it has both - great reviews and terrible reviews. Not sure which ones to believe. Any feedback will be very helpful!
I pulled up their construction details on a random sofa from the R&F website. Here are the specifications for one Chateau d'Ax sofa at R&F. My comments are in RED.
100% Leather
100% Leather adorns the sofa with beauty, comfort and durability, and it will grace your living room with a touch of luxury and sophistication for years to come
100% leather only gives you about 10% of the story. You know its leather, but more important to longevity are questions about how the leather was treated and the grade of the leather. There are next to no details so I'd ask the sales rep questions about it. Ask for specifics, sales reps are good a BS. Feel free to come back here to check their answers.
Select hardwood frame
Sofa frame is carefully crafted of durable select hardwoods that are reinforced with fiberboard and plywood to ensure longevity and provide extra strength
This is not a high quality frame, and this is probably where you start to see some of those negative reviews come into play. Hardwoods contain moisture, which over time can cause the wood to warp and causes pulling at the frames joints. Then when you go to move your sofa, things start to get weak. To avoid this, the best sofa manufacturers kiln dry their frame wood in a very controlled environment to remove most of the moisture. This company tries to avoid the problems that could come from warping by adding fiberboard blocking, which is going to make it heavier and is the cheapest, least strong option.
Keep in mind that not all engineered wood is bad. Fiberboard IS bad. Engineered hardwoods can actually be stronger and the industry is beginning to adopt this practice in earnest.
Quality construction
Sofa's frame joints are precisely assembled with corner blocks, glue and staples for extra strength, stability and durability
Glue & staple is the weakest type of construction for a joint. Even glue and screw is not terrific. The best option here is for interlocked joints. They basically self lock and when the furniture is under load or pushed/pulled, the joints will resist separation.
Poly-nylon webbing
Poly-nylon webbing provides uniform support across the entire seating area for outstanding comfort and resilience
Here's the kicker, pirelli webbing may have its merits, but true pirelli is 100% rubber and is considered to be a well made product. This is not what is being used by this manufacturer.
Removable feet
Convenient removable feet allow the sofa to fit through tight spaces and entryways easier, making moving or rearranging your furniture less of a hassle
Can be a point of concern depending on the way the foot is mounted. If they cheaped out on this (and they do seem to lean toward the cheaper side) then it could be a point of failure.
1.8-lb. Density, Dacron® crowned foam seat cushions
1.8-lb. Density foam seat cushions offer lasting comfort and shape retention, and they're crowned with Dacron® for a rounded appearance and an extra layer of cushioning
1.8 pound is a very soft foam which is going to lose resilience faster than most. Typically 1.8 pound is used for soft back cushions and not for seat cushions. Dacron is a type of fiberfill which will lose loft fairly quickly. My sofa used this same type of cushion. I sit on my sofa daily and the cushions lasted about 7 years. Seats should be at least 2.2 pounds and personally, I think a 3 pound foam wrapped in a 90/10 down is best. I bet a number of the negative complaints center around cushion issues.
I've given a lot of information here. Keep in mind that all of the "best" options that I have mentioned are going to add cost to the sofa. In my opinion, a well constructed sofa starts at the $2000 price point. Anything below that value and you are going to be compromising on quality somewhere.
Do a bit of web research on each of these items and you can can make a better informed decision on where to sacrifice.
In my opinion, the Chateau d'Ax is not a well constructed sofa and depending on use, you could expect to get 7-15 years out of it, with the last 3-4 years it will look fairly bedraggled in on way or another.
I can't help as far as the manufacturer goes but I can tell you that I personally bought a recliner from an online store after seeing it on sales floor and it was a ton cheaper and the entire experience was fabulous. If you want the name dm me and I will send it to you.
The details on the Macy's site are very vague and generalized. I wouldn't expect a sales person at a department store to know much about furniture construction. I've quizzed the sales staff at the local Carson Pirie Scott furniture gallery (now owned by Bloomingdales) and they didn't understand much about different types of furniture construction methods or what made one better than another.
I love this line on the Macy's page:
* All dimensions listed are approximate
That's rich. I'm not sure how much leeway they are giving themselves here.
The details on the Macy's site are very vague and generalized. I wouldn't expect a sales person at a department store to know much about furniture construction. I've quizzed the sales staff at the local Carson Pirie Scott furniture gallery (now owned by Bloomingdales) and they didn't understand much about different types of furniture construction methods or what made one better than another.
I love this line on the Macy's page:
* All dimensions listed are approximate
That's rich. I'm not sure how much leeway they are giving themselves here.
Salespeople at real furniture stores are usually much more knowledgeable about the product they sell.
this was an amazingly helpful response! i wondered if i could get a similar breakdown on the 2 above sofas. thank you.
QUOTE=TheWayISeeThings;24596654]I pulled up their construction details on a random sofa from the R&F website. Here are the specifications for one Chateau d'Ax sofa at R&F. My comments are in RED.
100% Leather
100% Leather adorns the sofa with beauty, comfort and durability, and it will grace your living room with a touch of luxury and sophistication for years to come
[INDENT]100% leather only gives you about 10% of the story. You know its leather, but more important to longevity are questions about how the leather was treated and the grade of the leather. There are next to no details so I'd ask the sales rep questions about it. Ask for specifics, sales reps are good a BS. Feel free to come back here to check their answers.[/INDENT]
Select hardwood frame
Sofa frame is carefully crafted of durable select hardwoods that are reinforced with fiberboard and plywood to ensure longevity and provide extra strength
[INDENT]This is not a high quality frame, and this is probably where you start to see some of those negative reviews come into play. Hardwoods contain moisture, which over time can cause the wood to warp and causes pulling at the frames joints. Then when you go to move your sofa, things start to get weak. To avoid this, the best sofa manufacturers kiln dry their frame wood in a very controlled environment to remove most of the moisture. This company tries to avoid the problems that could come from warping by adding fiberboard blocking, which is going to make it heavier and is the cheapest, least strong option.
Here is a good primer on frame construction: [url=http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/the-best-sofa-frame-constructi-149041]The Best Sofa Frame Construction: Kiln Dried vs. Engineered Wood | Apartment Therapy[/url]
Keep in mind that not all engineered wood is bad. Fiberboard IS bad. Engineered hardwoods can actually be stronger and the industry is beginning to adopt this practice in earnest.
[/INDENT]
Quality construction
Sofa's frame joints are precisely assembled with corner blocks, glue and staples for extra strength, stability and durability
[INDENT]Glue & staple is the weakest type of construction for a joint. Even glue and screw is not terrific. The best option here is for interlocked joints. They basically self lock and when the furniture is under load or pushed/pulled, the joints will resist separation.
[/INDENT] Poly-nylon webbing
Poly-nylon webbing provides uniform support across the entire seating area for outstanding comfort and resilience
[INDENT]This is talking about the type of seating support system used. Here is an article about 8 way hand tied vs pirelli webbing: [url=http://voices.yahoo.com/8-way-hand-tied-vs-pirelli-webbing-furniture-628166.html]8 Way Hand Tied Vs. Pirelli Webbing in Furniture - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com[/url]
Here's the kicker, pirelli webbing may have its merits, but true pirelli is 100% rubber and is considered to be a well made product. This is not what is being used by this manufacturer.[/INDENT] Removable feet
Convenient removable feet allow the sofa to fit through tight spaces and entryways easier, making moving or rearranging your furniture less of a hassle
[INDENT]Can be a point of concern depending on the way the foot is mounted. If they cheaped out on this (and they do seem to lean toward the cheaper side) then it could be a point of failure.[/INDENT] 1.8-lb. Density, Dacron® crowned foam seat cushions
1.8-lb. Density foam seat cushions offer lasting comfort and shape retention, and they're crowned with Dacron® for a rounded appearance and an extra layer of cushioning
[INDENT]1.8 pound is a very soft foam which is going to lose resilience faster than most. Typically 1.8 pound is used for soft back cushions and not for seat cushions. Dacron is a type of fiberfill which will lose loft fairly quickly. My sofa used this same type of cushion. I sit on my sofa daily and the cushions lasted about 7 years. Seats should be at least 2.2 pounds and personally, I think a 3 pound foam wrapped in a 90/10 down is best. I bet a number of the negative complaints center around cushion issues.
[/INDENT]
I've given a lot of information here. Keep in mind that all of the "best" options that I have mentioned are going to add cost to the sofa. In my opinion, a well constructed sofa starts at the $2000 price point. Anything below that value and you are going to be compromising on quality somewhere.
Do a bit of web research on each of these items and you can can make a better informed decision on where to sacrifice.
In my opinion, the Chateau d'Ax is not a well constructed sofa and depending on use, you could expect to get 7-15 years out of it, with the last 3-4 years it will look fairly bedraggled in on way or another.[/quote]
TWIST has given you good info. Here are some other thoughts. I've looked at Macy's furniture from time to time, and I don't think they carry very good stuff.
The advice to purchase furniture from a good furniture store is solid. An experienced furniture guy is knowledgeable about his product.
I have worked for Macy's in the furniture department for over 13 years now and we have always had numerous Chateau D'ax product on our floor. If it were poor quality or we were to have an inordinate amount of complaints about their products, I wouldn't sell them because a return does me zero good. There are mattresses I won't sell for that reason, as an example. We sell more leather than anything else and we sell more Chateau D'ax and it's not even close. I know this thread started a year ago, but we have the Milan on our floor and it is one of Chateau's best sofas if not their best sofa, it is on sale for $1499. There are certainly better-made sofas out there, so one's price point will come into play. The Milan is not a top seller at my location because it has a certain look that the customer has to be looking for, but it is 100% Italian leather all the way around, no vinyl sides, no pleather, no bonded leather. I have never had a single customer issue with the cushions or frame breaking down, in or out of warranty.
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flexsteel leather bailey sofa @ mealeys vs natuzzi addison @ raymour
