Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hi
I dont know about your state but in ours it must be piped into the sewage system and thus eventually back into the water system and then removed at some other point. Antibiotics are good too"the first time around" dont really want them in my drinking water. We ran leaded gas for a lot of years and lead is natural too but, eventually it was determined that having it in the air was not good. We each have our own idea about what is bad or not bad for us or for the world at large and no one is going to change the others mind. We each do what we think is right. Also, i hate having to add salt, i am saving labor. see ya dennis
Hi
I dont know about your state but in ours it must be piped into the sewage system and thus eventually back into the water system and then removed at some other point.
I think you are confusing softener salt with salt water intrusion from the surrounding Gulf and Atlantic ocean, FL is full of it simply due to FL's geology and what has been done to the Everglades and the residents using so much groundwater watering grass etc. etc..
I looked into the salt free conditioners myself when I bought my whole house water treatment system, specifically the electronic hard water conditioner. I was skeptical about them and did some research and they have been around for quite some time as these were mostly used at the commericial/industrial level and now they are being marketed at the residential level. I looked at the Vitasalus Hardness Master and the Aquagenesis Scalewatcher and chose that one because I got a really good deal but essentially they are the same. I do personally see a difference with it installed, as the water does appear to be silkier and I dont itch at all after a long shower and it is easier to clean toilets, shower basins, sinks, etc.
I do not know about magnets and thier efficacy in this manner. I have read that they are spotty because of "quote from aquagenesis site" The magnetic field strength required for effective conditioning varies with the velocity of the water flow. Most applications have changing water flow velocities. A permanent magnet of a given size works well with a small range of water velocities, but is ineffective when the flow is outside of the useful range.
Some people have had success with magnets and now that the technology has improved from ceramic to neodymium magnets and there are different grades of them, N42 being the highest. Unfournately also the most expensive and I am not convinced from a seller of them that 2 or 3 is even enough. Try the electronic one as it comes with a money back guarantee and the one I bought has a 10 year warranty. If you trully have very hard water and other issues to go along with it then you probably need a whole house system with the conventional salt tank but this might be worth a try. Just leave the magnets for the refridgerator..LOL!
I looked into this extensively about five years ago. I got real excited about the magnetic softener concept (not really sftens, just makes the hard particle not stick to anything). After a lot of research, I learned that it is a scam. the magnetic concept "might" work, but you would need a unit the size of your house. Those magnets that you clamp onto or splice into you plumbing pipes do nothing at all.
I spent hundreds of hours looking into this and other alternatives to salt based softeners. Sorry, there are none that actually work. If they only sell over the internet, you know something is wrong. If a technology has been around for 20 or more years and is not in widespread use, there is a reason for it. Watch out for hype, and find real scientific studies done by universities.
In some communities, you can use potassium rather than sodium, but it still creates problems for plants and health. You can also use a whole house R.O. filter if you are rich.
We ended up using a Kinetico water softener. They are really expensive, but they use a lot less salt than typical softeners.
I looked into this extensively about five years ago. I got real excited about the magnetic softener concept (not really sftens, just makes the hard particle not stick to anything). After a lot of research, I learned that it is a scam. the magnetic concept "might" work, but you would need a unit the size of your house. Those magnets that you clamp onto or splice into you plumbing pipes do nothing at all.
In some communities, you can use potassium rather than sodium, but it still creates problems for plants and health. You can also use a whole house R.O. filter if you are rich.
We ended up using a Kinetico water softener. They are really expensive, but they use a lot less salt than typical softeners.
I agree that the physical water treatment anti-scale/descaling devices and magnets don't work.
All ion exchange salt type water softeners, the only kind there is in the world, can use potassium chloride as a regenerant but, you usually have to increase the salt dose by up to 30% more because no resin is made in the potassium form; all are sodium form, so potassium is not near as efficient. Plus it now costs up to 4 times more for a 50 lb bag! And it can be as dangerous and more to your health. Anyone using it or thinking of using it, that has health problems, really needs to talk to their doctor.
Page 4 - Potassium in Drinking Water: Document for public comment (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/water-eau/consultation/potassium/part2-eng.php - broken link)
About Kinetico. If the Kinetico and another softener use the same resin (they do) and there is the same volume of resin in the tanks, the Kinetico softener is not more salt efficient per week, month or annually.
That's because of the small softeners they sell that usually regenerates every day or more than once per day but normally multiple times in 7-9 days. So on a weekly basis they will use more salt than a regular softener regenerating once every 7-9 days. And then, they very probably will use more water too.
I've been in the softener business going on 22 years and have never been able to get a Kinetico dealer to say publicly how much salt and water their softeners will use on a 7-9 day basis. They always mention like "1.5 lbs and 11 gallons per regeneration" but, they won't total how many regenerations on a weekly basis. IMO that is gross misrepresentation and in many instances, their customer belives their claim and repeats it. So Coldjensens, how many regenerations on a daily or weekly basis and what is the salt dose lbs? I won't ask how many gallons of water because you may not know that.
Kinetico is more efficient because they have two tanks. The recharge is done with soft water mixed with brine rather than with hard water like most systems. Soft water removes the minerals from the resin more efficiently than hard water so you need less salt. They do use a lot less salt. the difference is big enough to be noticable. I do not remember with certainty, but I think tha thte Kintecio used about 1/3 the amount of salt as a standard system.
I no longer know how many regnerations we got from a given quantity of salt. There isnothing to tell you when or how often the unit regenerates. Kinetico is all mechanical, it does nto use electricity at all so there is not computer on it or anything. The only way to compare that i know of is to compare salt usage.
We sold that house in 2005 and now have soft city water. I do know that we compared salt useage with several other families who had regular one tank softeners, a similar sized family and a similar sized house and all of them used substantially more salt than we did. We hardly ever had to add salt. It seems like it was no more than two or three times a year multiplied by however many bags of salt we need to fill the tank. That was sometimes problematic becuase since it was so rare, we often forgot to check it. You noticed when the water turned hard again though.
We had very heavy water usage. There are seven people in our family plus a lot of pets, yard, etc. I can not remember whether we had them bypass the softener for the hose spigots and sprinkler system. I would assume that we did unless there was some reason that they could not.
I saw the same thing about increase in potassium usage, plus it costs more, it cna cause blood pressure problems and it is bad for plants, so we just stuck with salt.
Kinetico is more efficient because they have two tanks. The recharge is done with soft water mixed with brine rather than with hard water like most systems. Soft water removes the minerals from the resin more efficiently than hard water so you need less salt. They do use a lot less salt. the difference is big enough to be noticeable. I do not remember with certainty, but I think that the Kinetico used about 1/3 the amount of salt as a standard system.
That's exactly what their customers are told. The problem is a lot of it is not true. The k grains of capacity of all softeners is adjustable and, it is controlled by the volume and type of resin being used and then, the lbs of salt the salt dose is set to. The negative charged sites on the resin beads remove hardness ions etc. from the water stream and then during regeneration, the salt brine removes them from the resin bead sites. It really doesn't matter much at all if the regeneration uses softened or hard water. IF both types of softener have the same volume and type of resin, and are set to use the same number of lbs of salt, the salt efficiency is the same for both softeners.
All twin tank type softeners regenerate one tank at a time, using softened water from the other tank. And that uses capacity which requires salt to regenerate that capacity. You can't compare an old softener's salt use unless it has the same type and volume of resin with the same lbs. of salt used per regeneration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
I no longer know how many regenerations we got from a given quantity of salt. There is nothing to tell you when or how often the unit regenerates. Kinetico is all mechanical, it does not use electricity at all so there is no computer on it or anything. The only way to compare that i know of is to compare salt usage.
That's true, and unless their sales person or dealer tells you how frequently their twin tank softener regenerates and how many lbs of salt and gallons of water it will use per regeneration, you can not compare to another softener unless you get the same info from the other sales person or dealer. Which is what I said initially.
You can not compare to another family because they will not have the same water use, or may not have the same volume of the same type of resin or the same hardness or, their softener may not be set up for the best salt efficiency.
I am glad that you are happy with you choice. I hope those here on the forum that wanted to help you have. You have made good choice and should be happy with your choice. I sent you a PM and can send you more information on your equipment or some helpful hints.
A softener that has an efficiency rating of 5500 grain per pound of salt will always be more efficient than one that does 3500 or even 4000 g/lb.
Take care,
Andy Christensen, CWS-II
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Kinetico
