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Thanks. That was interesting to read. We do not have actual walls here for privacy but we will have a stockade fence or a tall hedge instead. They never extend down to the road though. I don't know why but maybe it's just tradition that the hedge or fence is for the side and back of the house, not the front yard.
Note though that landscaping requires water and maintenance. Here comes the requirement for an HOA. Even simple landscaping and perhaps a display at the entrance means an HOA.
I don't know why ^^^^. A stockade fence with a few flowers in front of it? We water the flowers ourselves. A hedge? Some do need trimming but most don't. They're watered by rain once they are established. You might need to water them yourself the first year you plant them though.
And gating does have some value. Does not really do much for security but it does cut down traffic greatly. The problem with the old standard of back to back on parallel streets is you end up with through streets and cars speeding.
I don't really get the gating either. I've always chosen to live on quiet streets because I hate noisy traffic. Lots of towns have curved and winding roads so that people won't speed. It looks nicer than parallel streets too. Although in the town I grew up in we lived on a busy road. Teenagers would speed in their sports cars sometimes. We had a great police department that would get 'em! Don't you have speed limit signs and police?
And back to the fences. In England I've noticed that they do have tall walls many times between their houses and across the back. Walled gardens. The walls are like what we have here with the stockade fences and hedges--they are for the back and side yards. I don't think anyone builds a wall all the way down to the road--that would be hideous.
I still don't quite "get" the need for an HOA. There are all sorts of guidelines and laws and a system of permits required by each town. What's wrong with just doing it on a town wide level with the laws voted in by the citizens and enforced by the town police? Unless maybe you have people who won't abide by the laws and would cause trouble. Around here, if there are people like that, they'd better go live in a cabin in the middle of the woods where no one can see them! Maybe we aren't too tolerant around here. We have laws and most people respect them.
Maybe what we pay in taxes for police, selectmen or a mayor and council is what you pay HOA fees for? I don't know which method is more efficient but town wide laws seem to work pretty well. Yes, there will always be a few people who yell and scream because they want to build a gigantic addition onto their house that would obscure the pretty view the neighbors have had for years. All are free to come and tell their own side of the story in front of the council and the people of the city or town. There will sometimes be people who want to start a business in a zoned residential area. Yell and scream all they want, but zoning is there for a reason. People who want to do something to their house that doesn't conform to fire department regulations--these are the sorts of things the town will enforce.
Actually the gating in not essential. But much as you indicate people like winding roads and cul-de-sacs. In many of the subdivisions there is no gating though the whole place is walled at the outer borders. And these border walls tend to be on major boulevards and have to be landscaped.
I would think it could have been the custom that you dedicated the edge of your property with the road and the municipality would put in the landscaping and maintain it. But that would of course run the cost to the bottom line to be paid by all properties. And many of them would get no benefit as they were already in the parallel street mode. Kind of wish they had. I live in what is locally called an equestrian are on .6 acres. These properties were developed long before the landscaping rule so we basically have ugly streets. Virtually all the homes however are on cul-de-sacs of 3 to 10 homes which are off the street on a private lane. So we get to ignore the ugly side of it.
I lived for many years in upstate NY. There your hedges and fences would have been considered quite objectionable and certainly unneighborly.. We had roughly an acre parcel and not a single fence in the area. Kids and deer and other creatures passed through without hindrance. Only use for fencing was swimming pools and tennis courts. And where I grew up in Louisville KY the fence was anathema. Kids ran through properties without care and even adults would stroll through a yard without concern.
As to cops and speeding the big problem is that we all do all the time. Our small roads are virtually vacant and everyone goes 40 mph or so. But the speed limit is 25...which is actually reasonable for low use residential areas. So the Police wisely ignore the problem. Push the speed limit for a year and it will end up with lots of 40 mph zones. An outcome no one wants. So the police keep speed limit enforcement to the boulevards and school zones. In fact we actually see a cop car about every other year around the house.
I would think though HOA is permanent in this part of the world. The municipalities have simply adopted it as the desired way to do any new tract. So basically anything now and for the past 20 years has an HOA with a very few exceptions.
And you can build a custom home, which is what he have, without an HOA. But be careful. If the lotis improved...that is graded and has utilities...it is virtually certain to have CC&Rs. And they can be more specific and confining than a light duty HOA. And in at least one case I saw an HOA actually hidden in a well agreement.
Actually the gating in not essential. But much as you indicate people like winding roads and cul-de-sacs. In many of the subdivisions there is no gating though the whole place is walled at the outer borders. And these border walls tend to be on major boulevards and have to be landscaped.
I would think it could have been the custom that you dedicated the edge of your property with the road and the municipality would put in the landscaping and maintain it. But that would of course run the cost to the bottom line to be paid by all properties. And many of them would get no benefit as they were already in the parallel street mode. Kind of wish they had. I live in what is locally called an equestrian are on .6 acres. These properties were developed long before the landscaping rule so we basically have ugly streets. Virtually all the homes however are on cul-de-sacs of 3 to 10 homes which are off the street on a private lane. So we get to ignore the ugly side of it.
I lived for many years in upstate NY. There your hedges and fences would have been considered quite objectionable and certainly unneighborly.. We had roughly an acre parcel and not a single fence in the area. Kids and deer and other creatures passed through without hindrance. Only use for fencing was swimming pools and tennis courts. And where I grew up in Louisville KY the fence was anathema. Kids ran through properties without care and even adults would stroll through a yard without concern.
As to cops and speeding the big problem is that we all do all the time. Our small roads are virtually vacant and everyone goes 40 mph or so. But the speed limit is 25...which is actually reasonable for low use residential areas. So the Police wisely ignore the problem. Push the speed limit for a year and it will end up with lots of 40 mph zones. An outcome no one wants. So the police keep speed limit enforcement to the boulevards and school zones. In fact we actually see a cop car about every other year around the house.
I would think though HOA is permanent in this part of the world. The municipalities have simply adopted it as the desired way to do any new tract. So basically anything now and for the past 20 years has an HOA with a very few exceptions.
And you can build a custom home, which is what he have, without an HOA. But be careful. If the lotis improved...that is graded and has utilities...it is virtually certain to have CC&Rs. And they can be more specific and confining than a light duty HOA. And in at least one case I saw an HOA actually hidden in a well agreement.
I guess it's really different everywhere you go. Where I live you would never set foot on someone else's property unless you knew them. Also, I think more people want privacy now than in the past. I can remember an uncle felt funny about putting up a fence between the yards. That was a long time ago. Nowadays, with the kind of kids some people have, no one bats an eyelash if someone wants to put a fence up.
Yeh, there would be lots of rules and regulations if someone wanted to build a new house. I agree with that because they have to respect what was there beforehand and the people who live nearby. They also have to build to modern safety standards.
For speeding, there are signs posted as you approach a residential area that say "Caution" and "residential area" and the lowered speed limit--and the cops will definitely stop people. It's well enforced!!!!!!!
I can understand what you mean if there are wide, crowded boulevards. I saw that sort of thing in the south with four lanes going each way and strip malls alongside. Not suitable for housing unless it's off on a little side area by itself. Here, those wide streets are usually not zoned for housing, I don't think. They are business zoned so that's where Staples, Home Depot, gas stations, car dealerships, etc. are located.
We use our small roads for housing. They are strictly zoned for housing and no businesses are allowed. It's separate. If a developer wants to build new houses, they chop down some woods or buy out some farmland. The city or town wouldn't allow them to build a housing development near the huge, busy roads in the first place.
So it sounds like there are reasons for each way of living, HOAs and town/city government. Personally, I feel safer with the town/city guidelines because they seem more fair to all and less vulnerable to local gossip and pettiness. No one is going to whine if there's a weed in my lawn. No one's going to report me for leaving the garage door open for a few hours while I'm in and out, working in the yard. No one's going to report me because they don't like my floral curtains. I am allowed to be an individual with my own tastes. Those are the horror stories I read on here about HOAs. I don't think cities and towns would ever have dumb laws like that. They don't micromanage people's lives but probably most HOAs don't either. They shouldn't because it's none of anyone's business.
Yes, we did. Nearly all of the rules are things we'd be doing anyway, and it keeps the neighborhood looking nice. We do seem to have a neighbor who likes to call and complain about the smallest of things. We've received letters telling us we're breaking the rules when we have left free items out for pick up, or put a trash can out too early because we were leaving town. At the end of the day, it's just a warning letter, so whatever. This is a large HOA with plenty of money, too. The only real issues I've ever heard of were smaller associations.
I've never seen an 18 wheeler parked at anyone's house or property. Not even the cab without the trailer.
Me neither. You couldn't fit an 18-wheeler in front of most houses here without blocking a drive way. Commercial vehicles aren't allowed by our HOA. Occasionally, you'll see one. RVs can only be parked for a couple days for packing and unpacking.
You'd be hard pressed to find a new development around here (San Francisco Bay Area) without an HOA cities require that new subdivisions are under HOA rule. Because the city has to provide less services to these neighborhoods in the way of street and landscape maintenance but they get to collect the same and often more property taxes because special taxes are added to these developments. It's a giant scam. I would never own a house with an HOA I'm not going to spend $100-$500+ dollars a month to have someone else tell me what I can and can't do with my house.
There again, it seems to vary by what area of the country you live in. Here, we have all of that but no HOA and we pay the town to do what your HOA is doing. We don't have a lake but we're on the ocean. People who don't live here pay to park at the beach but if you can walk to it, it's free. We don't need or want a private ocean--it's friendly here and we like meeting the families who come and rent a place for a few weeks during the summer. Anyway we definitely wouldn't have ice cream stands and a gorgeous restaurant on the beach if it weren't for the summer tourists.
Santa will be coming around pretty soon but it's for every kid in town, not just in one certain part of town. The trails and parks are for everyone. Our town doesn't have its own golf course but there are plenty in nearby towns. The police station is about two miles away but there's a small version within walking distance. My husband stops and chats with the police when he's out walking the dog--that's how casual and friendly it is. The police drive around and patrol. If we go on vacation, we tell them and they will keep an eye on our house for us.
I just don't get the concept of gates and keeping everything private with guards. Buckingham Palace maybe, lol.
But not all HOA neighborhoods are gated communities. Take ours, for instance - we have a park and some common areas but no gates or walls. People in the community can come and go as they please, and I guess they could use our park, and maybe they do for all I know.
It's friendly here too - in fact, our average Halloween gathers about 400 kids from all over town who come trick or treating in our neighborhood.
There are a lot of wide varieties of HOAs out there.
My parents lived in a huge HOA community for several years, with it's own private lakes (9 of them), six golf courses, clubhouses, etc etc etc. Their dues were about $50 a month. If you wanted golf or swimming pool access, you paid a higher rate. Though it was gated, it had a huge variation of housing types and price points.
Within that community was an exclusive community with higher dues and a gate within a gate. It wasn't very appealing to me, or to them.
Anyway, like I said, lots of variation among HOAs.
Me neither. You couldn't fit an 18-wheeler in front of most houses here without blocking a drive way. Commercial vehicles aren't allowed by our HOA. Occasionally, you'll see one. RVs can only be parked for a couple days for packing and unpacking.
Neighborhoods and roads and streets tend to be very spacious around here. In non HOA neighborhoods, it's not particularly uncommon to see an 18 wheeler or school bus or some sort of big commercial truck parked in a driveway. That, however, is against the rules of just about any local HOA.
RVs can be parked a few days but they can't be STORED here. In non HOA neighborhoods, they are commonly stored on the lot or property.
In the future, cities are likely to have better security. Cars are likely to have transponders that identify them to security systems. Wherever you drive in a city, it's likely to keep track of you. If a crime happens, all cars that were near the crime scene would be identified by the city security system. Then there wouldn't be much advantage of a gated HOA neighborhood over the normal city security system. That could also allow taxes on driving in a city. The system would keep track of how much you drove. Some neighborhoods might have higher taxes than others, making it more expensive to drive there. Such taxes might even be able to replace all other taxes.
The real reason for HOA's is that city politics get too complicated. Cities want to pass the buck to HOA's because HOA's can pay a big part of the cost of services that might otherwise be city services. But nothing is really gained that way. Just political convenience. At a cost of dividing city services into a large number of HOA's that don't have the same economy of scale a city can have.
I voted no, because there wasn't a Hell No! option.
I hear ya!
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