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OP, I am SO sorry for you, and we had major problems with a home built by an independent builder ourselves in 2004. (We ended up walking away from the home with a deed in lieu of foreclosure during the 2008-09 mortgage crisis, and lost all of our savings -- $150k -- that we had invested.)
For our retirement home, we are going through a building firm with a 30-year history, sterling references, and having a bank-financed construction loan -- and I just HOPE that will prevent a lot of the problems we encountered back in 2004!
Last edited by katharsis; 01-21-2019 at 07:23 AM..
OP, I am SO sorry for you, and we had major problems with a home built by an independent builder ourselves in 2004. (We ended up walking away from the home with a deed in lieu of foreclosure, and all of our savings -- $150k -- that we had invested during the 2008-9 mortgage crisis.)
For our retirement home, we are going through a building firm with a 30-year history, sterling references, and having a bank-financed construction loan -- and I just HOPE that will prevent a lot of the problems we encountered back in 2004!
There are plenty of very qualified/good builders out there, you need to do your research and look carefully to find one. The bottom line is often the determining factor for many, however there is more important criteria then just the price!
An engineer could not inspect to prevent poor workmanship or would he (perhaps a few can) be able to properly hang a door. Their skill is working with math to design structural elements of a building, their tools are pencil, paper and a calculator, not hand or power tools.
Not correct. Although much of what an engineer does is theoretical, they also need to have expertise that is applied in the field.
Hanging doors is a different field from structural, so you might as well be saying that you should not hire anybody for a structural inspection unless they can also bake a souffle.
Not correct. Although much of what an engineer does is theoretical, they also need to have expertise that is applied in the field.
Hanging doors is a different field from structural, so you might as well be saying that you should not hire anybody for a structural inspection unless they can also bake a souffle.
I’m sure I could be mistaken, I’ve only been exposed to working with, structural, electrical, mechanical and geotechnical engineers for about 30 + years and have learned who would be the best suited professional to deal with the issue. Many people think because a person is a licensed PE, they know all of the answers and that’s not always the case.
An engineer could not inspect to prevent poor workmanship or would he (perhaps a few can) be able to properly hang a door. Their skill is working with math to design structural elements of a building, their tools are pencil, paper and a calculator, not hand or power tools.
All that needed is a good builder with carpenters and tradesman who know what they are doing and are not taking shortcuts due to lack of knowledge or being denied the necessary time to do it properly by their boss.
Any decent carpenter should know how to hang a door, install a wood floor or frame a porch roof securely to the house, it’s simple stuff.
Rather than hire someone to babysit the contractor, you need to find and hire a good contractor that you can trust. Often homeowners just go with the lowest price without proper analysis, I’ve seen it many times.
Very often, the lowest price turns out to be the most expensive❗️
That is the problem for most. In this case if the site was inspected before the concrete was poured there would be no problem. Of course you need to find the engineer with the right type of experience; the degree itself guarantees nothing.
An engineer could not inspect to prevent poor workmanship or would he (perhaps a few can) be able to properly hang a door. Their skill is working with math to design structural elements of a building, their tools are pencil, paper and a calculator, not hand or power tools.
I'm going to take exception to this statement, too. I'm a degreed civil engineer and spent most of my 40 year career in construction management. I was located on site and responsible for overall coordination and oversight of multi-million dollar projects. As such, I dealt with countless engineers and architects and consultants. With rare exception, every one of them routinely visited the jobsite and inspected and punchlisted their design work in the field. It's possible that some of them didn't know how to hang a door themselves, but they could certainly tell you if it was done right. Most of them would proactively meet with the various tradesmen and make suggestions before the work was done to avoid problems later on. As for myself, I'm pretty good with math and pencils and whatnot, but I can also use hand and power tools with the best of them.
I'm going to take exception to this statement, too. I'm a degreed civil engineer and spent most of my 40 year career in construction management. I was located on site and responsible for overall coordination and oversight of multi-million dollar projects. As such, I dealt with countless engineers and architects and consultants. With rare exception, every one of them routinely visited the jobsite and inspected and punchlisted their design work in the field. It's possible that some of them didn't know how to hang a door themselves, but they could certainly tell you if it was done right. Most of them would proactively meet with the various tradesmen and make suggestions before the work was done to avoid problems later on. As for myself, I'm pretty good with math and pencils and whatnot, but I can also use hand and power tools with the best of them.
Understood and since your specific specialty was in construction management, you would have a much better grasp with field conditions and dealing with job site issues. Many and probably the majority of engineers, from my experience, rarely do field inspections and hardly ever get involved with single family residential construction. And I appreciate the fact that you can work with your hands and power tools, that’s great and I’m sure you would agree that’s more of the exception than the rule.
My point was that OP had the impression that having a PE after a name makes them better suited to supervise a single family house to ensure it’s being properly constructed according to the plans and specs. Most of the construction horror stories that we hear about on this site are due to incompetent builders or lack of supervision. It’s not that an engineer wouldn’t be capable to supervise, it’s just that it’s not usually necessary.
Having worked with many different engineering firms throughout my career has been both interesting and educational for me and I certainly admire their skills.
You're obviously in an unincorporated area of a County that has no building oversight. Being a custom build on a build draw loan arrangement unfortunately it was up to you to ensure construction was properly progressing before approving successive draws. You are now well passed the framing stage and ready for (or should be ready for) completely buttoning up the exterior and interior walls. No doubt one of the draw stages was upon completion of the foundation and before framing started. You should have demanded the contracted for Engineer's foundation inspection before approving any further draws.
You should already have been speaking with an Attorney at the foundation stage when any foundation construction failures were found. You should be speaking with an Attorney now! The bank does not care what has occurred and only that you are on the hook for whatever they disbursed so far WITH YOUR APPROVAL.
I'll touch on some items below in red type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selestite
We are currently building a custom home in Texas. The Builder is horrendous. We've had unbelievable experience that is too lengthy to go into. The biggest problem I'm facing is the foundation. We discovered the framing is not sitting properly on the foundation so there needs to be a repair involving doweling in rebar adding a deep ledge and covering with non shrinking grout. We've discovered the builder failed to schedule the required pre-pour inspection for the engineered foundation.
Hopefully you have some type of actual proof of this. This would have been your first clue to stop draw payments and not progress with the build until the situation was resolved.
Can the foundation be warranted with the customary builder purchased 1-2-10 new home structural warranty? From what I've researched these types of builder purchased warranty's require a pre-pour inspection called a level 1 inspection as well as a final inspection at move in before they issue a warranty to the home owner. Anyone run in to this problem?
If the Warranty Company requires a copy of the report, it can not be produced, and they follow their own policies then obviously no. If the Warranty Company only requires some type of affirmation from the Builder that the inspection was performed, without requiring a copy of the report, then yes it will be warranted UNTIL you have an issue related to the foundation. At that point the Warranty Company most likely will request FROM YOU a copy of that report which obviously you can not provide. They will then deny the claim and possibly void all warranty terms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selestite
I'm not planning to authorize the next draw. So far we've only used our own funds. If we were to proceed with the current builder, assuming all corrections were made at builders expense etc..., the next draw will be the first tap the banks money.
Here is where you SHOULD definitely be speaking with an Attorney to ensure NO FURTHER FUNDS are provided to the builder until all corrections are made and an accounting sheet is provided to ensure the builder is not trying to play with your money or any bank draws by using that money to make corrections. If the builder plays this game you can wind up making it to the end of the build with a final WHOPPING bill and another huge headache to deal with. Anything you do from this point on may be interpreted as agreeing with the builder. GET AN ATTORNEY INVOLVED NOW!
If I don't go forward with this builder I don't know how that will effect the one-time-close loan. Since the bank hasn't kicked in any money yet, I think this is the time to pull out.
If you are going to pull out YES the time to do it is before the bank hands over any of their money!
Once they advance their money the game will become much more complicated.
ABSOLUTELY!
Hesitant to call the bank before I understand how pulling out of the one-time-loan before funding will work or not work.
DO NOT KEEP THE BANK IN THE DARK! You have a major problem occurring and you know about it. If the bank is going to pull the plug on the loan when they hear it then you are much better off. You would be surprised how helpful the bank may actually be. They also need to know NOT TO PAY the builder one dime. If you try riding this out and getting the banks money involved you have the potential of being dragged into a fraud charge yourself and against the bank.
Wondering if the builder and I can settle for the damaged foundation (cost was 50k), no pre-pour inspection, construction defects, pour workmanship issues and just part ways without a law suit being filed by me. The house is about half way done. Looking for answers.
The answer is GET AN ATTORNEY INVOLVED NOW! You do not have to sue and the Attorney may well put the fear of God into the builder to make them run the straight and narrow!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selestite
The County in question does not require the foundation pre-pour inspection. They only require septic system permit and floodplan certification.
Would you object telling us what County you are building in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selestite
Our contract with the builder includes a engineered foundation plan with soil samples and a pre-pour inspection. We paid for the engineered plan.
Soil sampling, Engineered plan, and Engineer's inspection all are not cheap! Did you receive any of this individual documentation with an actual Engineer's stamp on it? If the builder didn't do the foundation inspection how do you know the builder had the soil samples performed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selestite
Yes, that is what occurred. The County did not require a foundation pre-pour inspection but our building contract with the builder did. We paid for and the builder hired a licensed structural/foundation engineer to design and draw the slab on grade foundation including soil samples, and a pre-pour inspection and a sealed foundation plan. The engineer was not hired to inspect all other aspect of the construction job another inspector was hired for a pre-drywall inspection after the defects started showing up (early on).
What defects started showing up? Did you have your own evaluations of these defects performed before proceeding? What things were found in the pre-drywall inspection?
Escanlan,
Thank you for the thoughtful, relevant and succinctly stated comments to my custom home building dilemma. I will share more as I can but like you advised I am focused on assembling a good team of experts that are helping me get through this with a goal to get a well built home in the end even with all that has occurred. I'm taking advice from an attorney, independent third party building inspector (who is wonderfully talented by the way), and now I'm bringing in a highly acclaimed structural engineer to get a final determination on the proper fix for the foundation errors and missing pre-pour inspection report. I do not wish to sue the builder however we may end up in a mediation if we can't on agree on a way forward. Before any more draw money is issued, our attorney will modify our contract to address all remaining costs for finishing the house, get all the liens on file for work that has already been completed and address the builders responsibility for all the expenses associated with the corrections. The bank will be brought in and hopefully we will be on-board to issue the remaining draws and finish the house. If the bank wants to pull out, I'll have to finish the house myself with the help of a consultant. Haven't really been able to consider all that could entail but I don't anticipate having to go there. If it all falls apart, I'll be reporting back!
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