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Had a concrete pool deck poured last August. Over the winter, it "shifted" and now has a 5/8" step adjacent to the coping tiles. I think what happened is that the outer perimeter sunk down , driving the inner perimeter up around some fulcrum line somewhere in the middle. Concrete contractor was a *******-- didn't compact the soil or use gravel underlayment.
A concrete company quoted me $6K to replace the "heaved" concrete. A concrete "jacking" company quoted me $1800 to inject poly-fill foam close to the outer perimeter to LIFT to outer perimeter, and (theoretically) drive the inner perimeter back down over the fulcrum.
I get it that the foam is a good tool for lifting, but does anyone have success stories for fixing the heaving/step, teeter-totter condition that my concrete deck has? I don't want a foam injection process to make the heaving worse.
But you can certainly build in such a way to hopefully mitigate such actions (which I can expound upon with your answers). How large is the pool decking? Was it placed with a slight grade "away" from the pool coping? What did the area look like prior? Was dirt brought in? Compaction could certainly play a role- but grade would be more important. And not just the concrete- but the ground beyond the decking. Some overall pics of the area might help- a closeup pic is the "problem". But overall pics may show the "reason" for the problem.
Where you are located can help with annual weather and soil conditions- both of which can also be determining factors.
I'm in Oklahoma. The soil is mostly clay and some Bobcat excavating was performed to get to the level we are. Yes, the deck slopes away from the coping, and, toward the "low" side of the yard-- about 5" over the entire length of the deck. Neither the concrete contractor nor the pool contractor completed the grading around the pool after the deck was poured, but once I had the sprinkler system re-attached, I brought in about 12 yards of topsoil to create a dirt slope away from the concrete deck. That's not to say it was 100% perfect... and clearly not, since we had some concrete movement.
Now the photo doesn't exactly reveal it, but neither the concrete contactor nor the pool GC bothered to fill the gap between the coping & concrete with sealant and water likely entered that gap during the rainy season-- cracking several pieces of Travertine coping. Additionally, the coping tiles were too small-- the pool Bond Beam was about 13-14" wide and the coping tiles about 12" wide. The coping tiles overlap into the pool by about 1", so there was 2-3" of Bond Beam "reveal" when they poured the concrete. Yes, the "deck" overlaps the Bond beam by about 2".
And the concrete contractor did not specifically grade the soil to slope away from the pool prior to pouring. He placed rebar and properly attached the bonding clamps. He made the outer perimeter extra thick if that matters. So yes, the slab carries a majority of its weight on the outer perimeter. Over the Bond Beam, the slab is 1.25" thick... in the majority of the field, it is 3-4" and about the last 10" of the outer perimeter, the slab is 8-10" thick.
There's a lot of concrete-- 7.5' wide of deck on the long side (at the swim-out it's about 6' wide) & 10' wide of deck on the short side. Pool is 16 x 36'.
I added a couple of pics.
I'm mostly interested in whether this "polyfill" technique has a good potential to cure the heaving. The rest of the deck will be "stabilized" with foam so that it won't slip in the future.
My other option is to remove the travertine and reset it to match the concrete... not at all my first choice.
Thank you
Last edited by MikeHeckish; 06-06-2023 at 05:14 PM..
Had a concrete pool deck poured last August. Over the winter, it "shifted" and now has a 5/8" step adjacent to the coping tiles. I think what happened is that the outer perimeter sunk down , driving the inner perimeter up around some fulcrum line somewhere in the middle. Concrete contractor was a *******-- didn't compact the soil or use gravel underlayment.
A concrete company quoted me $6K to replace the "heaved" concrete. A concrete "jacking" company quoted me $1800 to inject poly-fill foam close to the outer perimeter to LIFT to outer perimeter, and (theoretically) drive the inner perimeter back down over the fulcrum.
I get it that the foam is a good tool for lifting, but does anyone have success stories for fixing the heaving/step, teeter-totter condition that my concrete deck has? I don't want a foam injection process to make the heaving worse.
I'm in Oklahoma. The soil is mostly clay and some Bobcat excavating was performed to get to the level we are. Yes, the deck slopes away from the coping, and, toward the "low" side of the yard-- about 5" over the entire length of the deck. Neither the concrete contractor nor the pool contractor completed the grading around the pool after the deck was poured, but once I had the sprinkler system re-attached, I brought in about 12 yards of topsoil to create a dirt slope away from the concrete deck. That's not to say it was 100% perfect... and clearly not, since we had some concrete movement.
Now the photo doesn't exactly reveal it, but neither the concrete contactor nor the pool GC bothered to fill the gap between the coping & concrete with sealant and water likely entered that gap during the rainy season-- cracking several pieces of Travertine coping. Additionally, the coping tiles were too small-- the pool Bond Beam was about 13-14" wide and the coping tiles about 12" wide. The coping tiles overlap into the pool by about 1", so there was 2-3" of Bond Beam "reveal" when they poured the concrete. Yes, the "deck" overlaps the Bond beam by about 2".
And the concrete contractor did not specifically grade the soil to slope away from the pool prior to pouring. He placed rebar and properly attached the bonding clamps. He made the outer perimeter extra thick if that matters. So yes, the slab carries a majority of its weight on the outer perimeter. Over the Bond Beam, the slab is 1.25" thick... in the majority of the field, it is 3-4" and about the last 10" of the outer perimeter, the slab is 8-10" thick.
There's a lot of concrete-- 7.5' wide of deck on the long side (at the swim-out it's about 6' wide) & 10' wide of deck on the short side. Pool is 16 x 36'.
I added a couple of pics.
I'm mostly interested in whether this "polyfill" technique has a good potential to cure the heaving. The rest of the deck will be "stabilized" with foam so that it won't slip in the future.
My other option is to remove the travertine and reset it to match the concrete... not at all my first choice.
Thank you
From the pool construction I’ve seen- both my own pool (vinyl liner) and pools (gunite) that were installed for a few buyers of homes I built, it sounds like the right methods/materials were used.
“OK” wasn’t exactly direct enough so… http://www.ogs.ou.edu/pubsscanned/EP...oil_veg_cl.pdf
Knowing the actual type of soil for your area can be paramount to the type/or method of repair/replacement. There are “expansive soils/clays” in OK- which may have had an impact on your particular scenario. However, it’s also possible that the big Arctic blast (the Mother Nature nod) we got in December could have also had something to do with it.
I’m not sure sealing the joint between coping and decking would have had any real impact on the results you have now. But, at the same time due to the soils that are possibly there, would an expandable/compressible joint material have been used?
As to the foam injection leveling- I have no personal/professional experience with the process. But, I have seen and used the “mud-jacking” method here in the ATL. I’m just not familiar enough, or seen/heard what the long-term viability of foam is compared to mud-jacking.
If you are in an expansive soils area and you have the decking lifted, what to say it doesn’t go full-tilt the other way with a hard freeze or a very large expansion of said soils??? Maybe caissons are needed for the perimeter? Perhaps a drain tile perimeter that will move any water from the decking away from the immediate soils?
There are a lot of variables that would make it hard to diagnose without some hard numbers and evidence- if you feel comfortable with the foam- that’s the bottom line. Collect all the information, numbers, and history you can and make an educated decision based on the information before you.
Yes, this is a 2-part epoxy "PolyFill" foam injection. I doubt that it is palatable to termites. Part A and Part B liquids are injected into the cavities underneath the slab through a small-ish 3/8" dia hole(s) they bore through the slab, and combine to create an expanding foam--- that serves to "compact" the soil and stabilize the concrete. If they force more of these two parts in the hole(s), it can "lift" the slab. Presumably they have a lot of success with slab foundations, and if you believe the hundreds of Google reviews, there are a overwhelming majority of happy customers.
They've yet to get back to me with specific examples of being able to correct my nuanced slab condition. I want them to correct the heaved section. Their "theory" is that by lifting the outer perimeter a bit, it'll cause the inner perimeter to go down. Makes sense, but it seems that it would depend on whether there is still a definitive fulcrum point (or line) underneath. Worst case is that they start "lifting" and it makes the heaved section worse.
From the pool construction I’ve seen- both my own pool (vinyl liner) and pools (gunite) that were installed for a few buyers of homes I built, it sounds like the right methods/materials were used.
“OK” wasn’t exactly direct enough so… http://www.ogs.ou.edu/pubsscanned/EP...oil_veg_cl.pdf
Knowing the actual type of soil for your area can be paramount to the type/or method of repair/replacement. There are “expansive soils/clays” in OK- which may have had an impact on your particular scenario. However, it’s also possible that the big Arctic blast (the Mother Nature nod) we got in December could have also had something to do with it.
I’m not sure sealing the joint between coping and decking would have had any real impact on the results you have now. But, at the same time due to the soils that are possibly there, would an expandable/compressible joint material have been used?
As to the foam injection leveling- I have no personal/professional experience with the process. But, I have seen and used the “mud-jacking” method here in the ATL. I’m just not familiar enough, or seen/heard what the long-term viability of foam is compared to mud-jacking.
If you are in an expansive soils area and you have the decking lifted, what to say it doesn’t go full-tilt the other way with a hard freeze or a very large expansion of said soils??? Maybe caissons are needed for the perimeter? Perhaps a drain tile perimeter that will move any water from the decking away from the immediate soils?
There are a lot of variables that would make it hard to diagnose without some hard numbers and evidence- if you feel comfortable with the foam- that’s the bottom line. Collect all the information, numbers, and history you can and make an educated decision based on the information before you.
Yes, that map is really awesome-- thank you. We're in a small suburb just a few miles NE of Tulsa (zone 24). A lot of clay, but once you get down about 4-5', it's solid Limestone. Took them a week to chisel it out for the deep end of the pool.
The lifting contractors also offer a joint sealing installation. The product they recommend is called Nexus Pro. It looks like a proprietary brand/product as I cannot find much about it on the internet (Foundationsupportworks.com) .
In every corner of our pool, where the coping tiles meet at 90 degree angle, the concrete contractor failed to clean out the concrete flashing between the deck & coping, and all the corner travertine cracked over the winter. The expansion gap between the deck and coping otherwise is about 1/4" or less. I added another photo of the concrete in the joint. Looks like they used a quickie saw but didn't do a proper job.
The lifting contractors claim that once the deck is stabilized with the foam, it won't ever move and have either a lifetime guarantee or 10 year guarantee to back it up.
The lifting is a fraction of the price as replacing the whole slab, but obviously, results aren't guaranteed.
And it did occur to me that this may "self correct" over the summer, and it might-- but I need something to keep it from happening every year.
I am still just a layman and not familiar with caissons. I assume it is akin to pilings. And yes, that seems like a more permanent solution and 3/4 of the outer perimeter is still easily accessible.
Last edited by MikeHeckish; 06-08-2023 at 10:54 AM..
Reason: add a piece of info
Termites seek out cellulose, the most plentiful organic compound found in nature. It is the main building block of plants and found in many materials we use every day. Termites feed on many of these materials to get the cellulose they need.”
Yes, do the poly... I am in Oregon with a bunch of clay soil. I have issues with my front porch (sinking) and my back patio (I added an extra 12 x12) where the guys did not put rebar in it, etc. The front porch is a giant thick (2+ feet) slab of concrete. The back patio is maybe 6 inches thick.
Anyways, I was having foundation issues and I had Terra Firma dealing with some of that. I also had them Poly lift my concrete out front and out back. Out back there was a lip that was a trip hazard the first time. It stayed fixed. I had new developments out back in a 5 year period (which they just fixed this week). I got a 5 year warranty and had warranty work done.
Out front they originally poly leveled in 2018 in April. It moved and they came back when things dried out in August of 2018. The thing shifted 1/8th of an inch in 5 years (so, they just re-fixed that under the warranty). Back in 2018 they wanted $25k to take out the front porch and repour it correctly. So, I spent $5k on the front and back with the 5 year guarantee.
You have a 10 year guarantee. First, the poly works. Second, if it doesn't work out you can consider replacing it in 10 years.
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