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1. Can you prove the HOA has a duty to maintain the roof?
2. Can you prove that the HOA improperly maintained the roof?
3. Can you prove such improper maintenance was the reason for the leak?
4. Can you prove the leak caused the damage to your floor?
If you answer 1 through 4 "yes," you've established a duty, a breach of duty, and proximate cause for your loss. Then, depending on the particulars of the HOA bylaws and state condominium regime statutes, you may win.
That said, and particularly in relation to the last comment, you are a member of the HOA, right? So, you own an interest in the roof, the common spaces, community amenities, etc. Therefore, in a sense, you are suing yourself. That's why the particulars of the bylaws and your state's condominium statutes are important.
If you owned real estate that was not "condominiumized" and the roof leaked because of deferred maintenance, age, natural wear and tear, all being reasons roofs do, from time to time, leak as that is in the nature all man made things, who would be responsible for the damage to your floor?
You.
While it's easy to say "inside damage caused by outside failure" is the responsibility of the HOA, establishing the duty under the bylaws and statutes, proving a breach of duty, and proving proximate cause are sometimes a bit more difficult.
i appreciate your response.
you are ignoring an important point here. we as residents pay $290 a month as condo fee. this condo fee covers garbage collection, water, and maintenance of the outside of the condos/common areas.
the same exact spot leaked 2 years ago (i have no proof) which damaged my drywalls. the previous management company prompty fixed the issue no questions asked!
the HOA is responsible for the outside of the unit. if rain gets INTO the unit, it can come from onwhere other than the roof. in fact, i have emails stating that the HOA is fixing the spot that was leaking.
ps. no where in the bylaws does it state that the HOA is responsible for the damages inside IF the outside is the cause. they would never put themselves on the hook on paper like that i guess!
however, i do have an email from the board president that says: "we spoke to the lawyer and he said that if there is no visible damage, the HOA is not obligated to repair the damages."
well, i think that the pictures i've shown DO show damage!
The HOA cannot reasonably be responsible for the damages unless they knew about the leak and then failed to repair it within a reaosnable time. They have no obligation to insure that no leaks or other problems occur in the building, only to repair them if they do. If they knew of the leak and knew that it was an ongoign problem and/or likely to cause damage, you may have a basis for a claim. Even if it is not in your contract, they took on the duty to maintain the exterior. However if your contract syas that they have no liability for damage to the interior, then you are probably toast. There are some instances in some states where such clauses cannot be enforced (intentaional acts or reckless disregard), but not all States invlaidate such clauses and that is very hard to prove.
I am surprised that the HOA does not have insurance. If they do, then you shoud get a settlement offer shortly before the trial.
Location: Sometimes Maryland, sometimes NoVA. Depends on the day of the week
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Where in Virginia are you? Condo makes me think NoVA. If so, consider the Fairfax Bar's Lawyer Referal service. $40 for a short consult. You don't have to hire the lawyer, but could get some legal advice Fairfax Bar Association
Where in Virginia are you? Condo makes me think NoVA. If so, consider the Fairfax Bar's Lawyer Referal service. $40 for a short consult. You don't have to hire the lawyer, but could get some legal advice Fairfax Bar Association
I lived in northern VA (Loudoun County) for 25 yrs and owned a newish townshouse in a development, operated by some Nazi HOAs. We always hated them. That said, your Homeowner's Insurance should cover damage both inside and outside of your unit. I can't believe they DON'T have this for you. Of course I am not a lawyer and do not know what your HOA Policy explicitly says. But they are supposed to maintain the property to prevent these things. BTW, was the water caused by a bad storm or hurricane? I had my home insurance (my own coverage as I had a townhouse not a condo) come through and they assessed damage both outside and inside (evidenced by damaged drywall) and paid for it because it was considered damage by a hurricane/storm (whatever cause the Adjuster put in there).
You should speak to an attorney first. Look for Legal Services or Legal Aide in your county. Most of these attorneys will not handle home ownership problems but can refer you to someone who does. You can get either a free consultation or pay $50 or a small fee. Just a little $ for peace of mind. Good luck on battling these rat bast*rds. I'm cheering you on . . . .
i appreciate your response.
you are ignoring an important point here. we as residents pay $290 a month as condo fee. this condo fee covers garbage collection, water, and maintenance of the outside of the condos/common areas.
the same exact spot leaked 2 years ago (i have no proof) which damaged my drywalls. the previous management company prompty fixed the issue no questions asked!
the HOA is responsible for the outside of the unit. if rain gets INTO the unit, it can come from onwhere other than the roof. in fact, i have emails stating that the HOA is fixing the spot that was leaking.
ps. no where in the bylaws does it state that the HOA is responsible for the damages inside IF the outside is the cause. they would never put themselves on the hook on paper like that i guess!
however, i do have an email from the board president that says: "we spoke to the lawyer and he said that if there is no visible damage, the HOA is not obligated to repair the damages."
well, i think that the pictures i've shown DO show damage!
thoughts?
I just re-read your post and I've got questions...
How can you say that it happened before but you have no proof -- and if you have no proof, how can you say that the previous management company fixed it ???
You should contact the previous owner regarding the previous water damage. Wasn't a previous problem declared on the Seller's Condition Report?
I would be concerned about mold issues if this is an ongoing problem.
If the HOA's got a lawyer on the board who will be acting as their representative, he knows all the tricks about small claims court and will be treated much differently than you will be without legal representation.
Have you had an inspection done by a qualified Home Inspector? Is he going with you to court?
In my one and only personal experience with small claims court I found that depositions and other testimony wasn't even considered by the judge if your witnesses aren't there to testify on your behalf -- even if it's notarized.
If you've got 4 days, I would seriously consider hiring an attorney.
Last edited by World Citizen; 06-02-2009 at 06:46 PM..
i'm going to answer all questions in one post.
yes. i'm in northern VA. no, i won't have to 'live' with them...since this is a rental property.
i have no proof that this issue was fixed last time (i was living there....not the previous owner) because they came and just fixed my drywall inside a few days after the leak...no questions asked. no paper work for me. when i mentioned it to them this time, they said that they don't know anything about it since the previous management company handled it. the leak occured after a snow storm....nothing unusual. no inspector needed to tell me that water is leaking from the roof. the HOA fixed the roof but the damage to my floors remain.
I suggested a professional home inspection of the roof and the floor to help you in court. Right now, it's just your word against theirs. Court is about proving your case to a judge.
I had pictures and notarized statements when I went to small claims court. I thought that was evidence enough to prove my case. My case was the last one heard so I got a mini-education on how these things are decided. The judge didn't even consider my notarized statments from witnesses as testimony. She flat out told me that the people should have come to court with me if their testimony was going to count.
So, I sat in court for several hours and spent several hours preparing just to be told that it didn't count. Better yet, I had the right to come back again and have another judge.
Good luck!
Last edited by World Citizen; 06-02-2009 at 08:05 PM..
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