Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's relatively huge though. Downtown Houston to uptown is about the distance from downtown Miami to Hialeah as the crowd flies. Or pretty much the entire city of New Orleans. So what would you say would be included in m the core of Miami?
Yes I understand this is still a huge area and thus will take a long time to fill out. What I’m saying is that regardless, if Montrose individually fills in, it doesn’t make a difference that other neighborhoods aren’t as liveable and walkable despite being in the core themselves.
To answer your question, Miami’s core is very big as well. But it’s more north and south while Houston’s is in all directions.
I understand what you are saying.
I'm not trying to imply that it will take Core areas like Montrose 50 years to grow uppp.
Montrose is already deeply in the Core, and well on its way to be grown up.
My Comment that it may take 50 years isn't to imply that Montrose will be big in 50 years, I mean all together Houston's Core will be big AND mature.
I'm also betting that ultimately other neighborhoods will eclipse Montrose by then in livability.
Montrose bones are not all that. What Montrose has going for it is the richness of amenities. Restaurants, entertainment grocery, retail and jobs. Eado imo opinion has better bones but pales in comparison to Montrose in every last amenity.
Midtown too has better bones but so far it's a disappointment, apart from the Post Midtown area.
I have a feeling as the rest of the core develops they will be just as liveable, if not more because of the stronger urban bones. Eado and Midtown have a lot better sidewalk coverage than Montrose and both having rail puts them ahead in the transportation.
Houston may not have an area as advanced as Uptown Dallas or midtown Atlanta yet because those cities focus was in that single area. Houston is simultaneously building up a multiple areas. The difference between it and other southern peers is that instead of it's core just growing longer and denser, it has a dozen cores growing into each other.
Richmond was a pretty happening street in the 90s, but very suburban in form. A ton of the nightlife dropped off, but then it began to transform into something else, now it looks completely different than it did 20 years ago.
Kirby, Washington, Allen Parkway, Memorial, Waugh, West Dallas, Montrose itself... All maturing nicely.
Those areas are interesting case studies because it is gentrification proximate to high income areas which resulted in the general area still being relatively affordable in comparison to similar areas in peer cities.
Eado and 3rd ward will be a totally different case study when the damn breaks and signature streets eventually blossoms.
Going back to Miami, I think it gets a pass in a lot of areas that Houston gets knocked on for.
I used to agree with you on Midtown having the better bones and structure for urban development but I’m not so sure about this anymore. A perfect grid isn’t really the benefit you think it is. I’ve been to many of the world’s greatest most walkable cities and really none of them outside of the US have that perfect box grid like Midtown. Not London not Paris. Really, America is the only country where the grid style roads dominate the inner cities so much. This is more of a coincidence than a cause but it still proof that square grids aren’t any better than other layouts. Even the example you used of Uptown Dallas lacks that layout. I’ve seen it said before that Midtown “has better bones than Uptown Dallas for urban development) but for reasons I’ve mentioned here, I’m not so sure that’s the case.
Now where I do think Midtown has a lot of unused potential is location. East of Montrose, South of Downtown, North Museum District (which in turn is right next to Rice, TMC and Herman Park). It’s definitely a good potential neighborhood to connect with its neighbors as great crossroads.
I do agree that the larger core takes more time to fill out as a whole. But again, how much a neighborhood develops wont matter in terms of what happens 5 or 10, miles away. And places like Singapore, London and so forth have much larger cores than Houston and they’re all much more developed than any city in the US not named NYC. Yes those are far ahead of Houston as well as any other city not in their tier (which is most the majority of the world). But they thrive in large cores. And that’s why I’m saying that if one neighborhood booms and builds out. It does have some hold back but I’d prefer that than everything be tied to one or two neighborhoods. Besides, Atlanta’s core is a lot bigger than just Downtown and Midtown. Not larger than Houston’s but still much larger than you’re giving credit for. I found that out when I visited twice last year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KinBueno
Going back to Miami, I think it gets a pass in a lot of areas that Houston gets knocked on for.
Such as?
Last edited by ParaguaneroSwag; 04-06-2024 at 08:29 AM..
I used to agree with you on Midtown having the better bones and structure for urban development but I’m not so sure about this anymore. A perfect grid isn’t really the benefit you think it is. I’ve been to many of the world’s greatest most walkable cities and really none of them outside of the US have that perfect box grid like Midtown. Not London not Paris. Really, America is the only country where the grid style roads dominate the inner cities so much. This is more of a coincidence than a cause but it still proof that square grids aren’t any better than other layouts. Even the example you used of Uptown Dallas lacks that layout. I’ve seen it said before that Midtown “has better bones than Uptown Dallas for urban development) but for reasons I’ve mentioned here, I’m not so sure that’s the case.
Now where I do think Midtown has a lot of unused potential is location. East of Montrose, South of Downtown, North Museum District (which in turn is right next to Rice, TMC and Herman Park). It’s definitely a good potential neighborhood to connect with its neighbors as great crossroads.
I do agree that the larger core takes more time to fill out as a whole. But again, how much a neighborhood develops wont matter in terms of what happens 5 or 10, miles away. And places like Singapore, London and so forth have much larger cores than Houston and they’re all much more developed than any city in the US not named NYC. Yes those are far ahead of Houston as well as any other city not in their tier (which is most the majority of the world). But they thrive in large cores. And that’s why I’m saying that if one neighborhood booms and builds out. It does have some hold back but I’d prefer that than everything be tied to one or two neighborhoods. Besides, Atlanta’s core is a lot bigger than just Downtown and Midtown. Not larger than Houston’s but still much larger than you’re giving credit for. I found that out when I visited twice last year.
Such as?
If you were a betting man, would you rather buy a single family home on a 5,000+ sq ft lot in Montrose or the Heights, in terms of future land value appreciation.
I used to agree with you on Midtown having the better bones and structure for urban development but I’m not so sure about this anymore. A perfect grid isn’t really the benefit you think it is. I’ve been to many of the world’s greatest most walkable cities and really none of them outside of the US have that perfect box grid like Midtown. Not London not Paris. Really, America is the only country where the grid style roads dominate the inner cities so much. This is more of a coincidence than a cause but it still proof that square grids aren’t any better than other layouts. Even the example you used of Uptown Dallas lacks that layout. I’ve seen it said before that Midtown “has better bones than Uptown Dallas for urban development) but for reasons I’ve mentioned here, I’m not so sure that’s the case.
Now where I do think Midtown has a lot of unused potential is location. East of Montrose, South of Downtown, North Museum District (which in turn is right next to Rice, TMC and Herman Park). It’s definitely a good potential neighborhood to connect with its neighbors as great crossroads.
I do agree that the larger core takes more time to fill out as a whole. But again, how much a neighborhood develops wont matter in terms of what happens 5 or 10, miles away. And places like Singapore, London and so forth have much larger cores than Houston and they’re all much more developed than any city in the US not named NYC. Yes those are far ahead of Houston as well as any other city not in their tier (which is most the majority of the world). But they thrive in large cores. And that’s why I’m saying that if one neighborhood booms and builds out. It does have some hold back but I’d prefer that than everything be tied to one or two neighborhoods. Besides, Atlanta’s core is a lot bigger than just Downtown and Midtown. Not larger than Houston’s but still much larger than you’re giving credit for. I found that out when I visited twice last year.
Such as?
I don't think midtown has better bones than Montrose because of the grid. I think midtown has better vibes because of the two things I mentioned, the better sidewalk coverage and the better public transit connections.
London and Paris are ancient cities. Whether they are grided or not they were built around pedestrians. In the modern world grided cities make more sense because modern cities sprawl more. Traversing 5 miles of grid by rail, bus or your personal car is much easier than traversing 5 miles of spaghetti roads filled with single family homes interspersed with dead ends.
I don't think Atlanta's core is just downtown and midtown, but I do think the core transitions into exurban looking areas pretty quickly. Those areas are not exurban but because if the tree cover and cul de sacs, they seem like developments you would see much further out in Texas cities. That doesn't mean I'm not giving ATL credit for the core, it just means that the transition seems rapid in comparison.
As for the things Miami gets passes on are:
inconsistent sidewalks, or too narrow sidewalks
The streets are narrower but they are still heavy with traffic like Houston streets
The major arteries are just as wide, but lack of upfront parking saves it from feeling as wide
The development sprawl for as much as they can. If not for the Everglades and the ocean it would be just as sprawled
Land is more of a premium so there is less surface parking, but the newer buildings in both cities are both built geared with the car in mind with often wonky garage entrances.
There's a ton more. But Miami has much better PT and much more pedestrian friendly core areas, and being sandwiched in limits east well sprawl so it doesn't offend as bad as Houston but it does get a lot of passes outside key neighborhoods
Quote:
Originally Posted by clutchcity
If you were a betting man, would you rather buy a single family home on a 5,000+ sq ft lot in Montrose or the Heights, in terms of future land value appreciation.
Interesting read about the transition of the street.
I wonder what happened to the dinosaur that lived under the over-pass at 59 and Montrose.
So weird calling it an overpass as 59 has been running UNDER Montrose for decades.
Our kids and grandkids are probably going to look at us funny when we talk about the Pierce ELEVATED or the homeless camps UNDER 59 in midtown and Downtown. I'm still finding it difficult to imagine midtown not separated from downtown and the Museum District.
Looks like they are going to dig a freeway sized trench through EADO before dismantling the 59 overpasses. I never thought of it that was before looking at those photos in that link. If that highway is not capped like they planned it's going to be a big divide between neighborhoods. Lots of room for an up and coming area to be set back
Tilman Fertitta bought River Oaks District? What the actual bleep. Completely unexpected real estate deal
My guess is this is where he will open a Catch Restaurant.but I hope he doesn’t run off Steak 48 and the others
Fertitta buying more real estate in River Oaks and Uptown.
One being the 4702 Westheimer block adjacent to ROD (which is now his as shown above). Originally, this was part of ROD but was later sold. Well I suppose now it’s part of ROD once again.
Another being 777 Post Oak which is the office building just south of the Post Oak hotel. If Texas casino gambling does get legalized and this lot gets used as the casino, that would be cool for a casino to have a 777 address. In the release, it was shown that Fertitta plans to improve sidewalks on this block.
Likely unrelated, Last year, there was also 5757 Memorial Drive purchase.
There probably won’t be major news as to what will happen with these properties any time soon other than the sidewalk improvements.
Fertitta buying more real estate in River Oaks and Uptown.
One being the 4702 Westheimer block adjacent to ROD (which is now his as shown above). Originally, this was part of ROD but was later sold. Well I suppose now it’s part of ROD once again.
Another being 777 Post Oak which is the office building just south of the Post Oak hotel. If Texas casino gambling does get legalized and this lot gets used as the casino, that would be cool for a casino to have a 777 address. In the release, it was shown that Fertitta plans to improve sidewalks on this block.
Likely unrelated, Last year, there was also 5757 Memorial Drive purchase.
There probably won’t be major news as to what will happen with these properties any time soon other than the sidewalk improvements.
Don't you think Tillman would put his first casino in Galveston, probably at the San Luis which I'm sure was designed with the eventuality of legalized casino gambling in Texas in mind?
Don't you think Tillman would put his first casino in Galveston, probably at the San Luis which I'm sure was designed with the eventuality of legalized casino gambling in Texas in mind?
I don’t think so unless the Texas laws forced that one way or another. Uptown Houston would draw more consistent traffic. Would Tilman go with the route that makes him less money just for the heck of it? No.
He may possibly do both. The Uptown location a more luxurious Post Oak casino (there’s plans to open a Post Oak casino on the Vegas strip as well). And the San Luis would be a good location for a Golden Nugget. But the priority would be Houston for sure. Money talks
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
