Why doesn't Houston consider building the rail system underground? Subway? (Katy: fit in, employment)

[dv1033]

Originally Posted by randian

No doubt having somebody else pay 90% or more of your ticket is quite exhilarating. Doesn't make it right. And by the way, people don't want to ride subways, they do so because super-dense cities have inadequate road systems.

Rail moves as fast only so long as you ignore the cost of transfers, but then rail advocates always presume passenger time is valueless. So do places like Portland OR, where they're intentionally increasing traffic congestion.

Rail systems are pretty much all the same, Houston's included: overpriced boondoggles. There is no metric by which passenger rail systems make sense.

Heavy passenger rail is even more of a disaster than light rail. It's more expensive and pollutes more.

Ever wondered why you don't choke on exhaust at a stoplight anymore? Rail pollutes more than cars because modern cars have essentially zero pollution when warm.

I hope not.

FAIL

[Spade]

Yeah that entire post was a huge Fail. Inadequate road systems? Good. Glad DC is not built for the cars. Some cities forget that Humans are the living breathing that make cities. Not cars.

[studiobtm]

Originally Posted by dv1033

Houston does have a rapid public transit. About 30,000 every weekday take an express bus from a park and ride to downtown, greenway plaza, or TMC with very few stops, if any. Combine the park&ride system with the HOV system and you have around 250,000 people taken off freeway mainlanes. It's not the flashiest system but 250,000 people is a large number.

And it works pretty well - I used it when I first moved here. But the HOV lanes still slow down or shut down and they don't run very fast. Instead of spending money on rail in town, where it would be pretty but isn't necessary, I would prefer to see high speed rail from the park and rides into the city. You could move large numbers of people efficiently in and out and make a serious impact on the freeway overcrowding. If it took 15 minutes flat to go from the Woodlands into town for example at 130+ mph I expect the park and rides would be very popular. It might very well be cost effective and efficient and would revitalize downtown. You could have hubs downtown, TMC and in the Galleria areas and riders could take short bus rides or walk from there. Elevated train linking those 3 areas would be a sweet addition but might not be cost effective.

[Kenpar]

I think that they should start on rail in town before they start making rail further out. They should make transit in town a lot more efficient, so when you do get in town you can connect to all the different parts of Houston easier. Starting from the outside and coming in is just backwards. It's like the people in Houston are paying for the people who moved out in the Suburbs to come into Houston, haha. If people moved out suburbs then they can drive into town like they have been, and enjoy the rail system. Or they can wait for the rail system to extend out towards their areas.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by Kenpar

I think that they should start on rail in town before they start making rail further out. They should make transit in town a lot more efficient, so when you do get in town you can connect to all the different parts of Houston easier. Starting from the outside and coming in is just backwards. It's like the people in Houston are paying for the people who moved out in the Suburbs to come into Houston, haha. If people moved out suburbs then they can drive into town like they have been, and enjoy the rail system. Or they can wait for the rail system to extend out towards their areas.

I think that's what Houston is trying to do. They are focusing inside the core first before venturing out into the suburbs.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by dv1033

Houston does have a rapid public transit. About 30,000 every weekday take an express bus from a park and ride to downtown, greenway plaza, or TMC with very few stops, if any. Combine the park&ride system with the HOV system and you have around 250,000 people taken off freeway mainlanes. It's not the flashiest system but 250,000 people is a large number.

Yeah but I was discussing just rail transit. I do understand what you're saying though.

[studiobtm]

Originally Posted by Kenpar

I think that they should start on rail in town before they start making rail further out. They should make transit in town a lot more efficient, so when you do get in town you can connect to all the different parts of Houston easier. Starting from the outside and coming in is just backwards. It's like the people in Houston are paying for the people who moved out in the Suburbs to come into Houston, haha. If people moved out suburbs then they can drive into town like they have been, and enjoy the rail system. Or they can wait for the rail system to extend out towards their areas.

Isn't the point to relieve congestion on the freeways?

Drive into town and then "enjoy the rail system"? What would be the point? If I already have my vehicle in town I'm just going to drive where I want to go.

The majority of the people who work in Houston live in the burbs, do you want them to pay for the young loft dwellers to have cool transportation - or do we want to move people efficiently, reduce oil consumption, reduce pollution (although that isn't much of a real concern anymore), get the freeways flowing and alleviate the need to build additional freeway capacity?

[Kenpar]

Relieving congestion on the freeways is all well and good, but it is kind of another discussion. People that live in Houston want to be able to get around Houston efficiently. There is nothing wrong with people from the suburbs wanting to have better transit. I know how they could get it, but they won't do it(move back to the city I mean). They like the suburbs, they moved to the suburbs, therefore they should deal with the commute that goes with living in the suburbs. If they want better transit then they should move into the city. Or like i said before, wait until it gets good enough to where it can get all the way out there. If it does that is. I know it seems like I'm an inner city dweller, but I actually live outside of Beltway 8 West. The rail isn't getting here any faster either, although it's crazy busy in this area.

Like I said, all of the environmental stuff is cool, but it is kind of a different topic. This is about inner city rapid transit.

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by studiobtm

Isn't the point to relieve congestion on the freeways?

Drive into town and then "enjoy the rail system"? What would be the point? If I already have my vehicle in town I'm just going to drive where I want to go.

First of all, this might be a newsflash to you but there are people who live in the city.

Second, if you're using the park and ride, your car's at home. You want a way to get around, don't you?

[Kenpar]

^ I honestly didn't think of that, haha. Partly because I don't use park and ride. But, they don't have a vehicle when they are in the city. It's why they stand in those long lines at the bus stop after work.