Why doesn't Houston consider building the rail system underground? Subway? (Sugar Land: taxis, to live in)

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by studiobtm

@scarface (I bet you think that is a great movie)

It is a great movie.

"It's pretty obvious that people want the newest and cutting edge thing..."

So that's a study? lol

When did I say that? And I asked you to provide studies, and you haven't. But, there are plenty of stories about the density in Inner Loop Houston increasing.

[matthou]

Originally Posted by jfre81

You can only build freeways so wide. Sure, the Katy Freeway flows well now -at great cost to redo something that was already there and functioning, if not optimally. But all this will do is drive more growth westward in Katy and beyond until it clogs up all over again. I give it 10 years tops.

When traffic flow is hindered within the inner loop it causes problems as well. It costs each of us more money. When it takes more time to make business deliveries it results in higher costs. Pollution is increased. Each driver uses more gas. Longer term, if traffic flow isn't maintained it drives away business to other areas of the city (or other cities) where traffic does flow. We've seen how the traffic patterns have been modified along the current Main st line. Businesses were driven away and the area still has not recovered. Travel times for those that do frequent the area have increase due to mandatory 4 way red lights, closed streets, rerouted traffic (main street square comes to mind). That costs all of us in increased pollution. The goal is to lower trips times, not to increase them

Originally Posted by jfre81

They paved over a rail line that could've been used for commuter rail to do that project too.

Don't forget to mention that METRO saw $$$ and had no problem selling the rights to TxDOT.

Originally Posted by jfre81

They spent what, over a billion dollars? To add how much capacity? 35,000 I think it was? That was just for one freeway in one direction too. But somebody wants to come and complain about the money spent on rail for X amount of riders? I guess it's not such a problem if you're one of the people taking advantage of it.

That's the whole problem here. It's what's best for me. Me, me, me. All the time. How about what's best for the entire region so we can all benefit in one way or another?

You appear to be glossing over quite a bit. I believe the initial capacity was 80000. The only modifications were an additional lane and an HOV lane prior to construction. Over 200000 vehicles per day were using the roadway by the late 80's. Travel times increased to the point that for the majority of the day, travel speeds were below 40. This is bad for EVERYONE in Houston, not just those who live in the vicinity. Slower travel times result in increased costs and increased pollution. Katy freeway maintenance ended up costing millions more than any freeway because the pavement was never designed to last as long as it did. As we've seen with the recent increase in water rates, ignoring infrastructure improvements is costly.

[jfre81]

Well, METRO didn't even own that rail line, one of the railroad companies did.

I fully admit to not knowing exact figures but the point remains, that's a whole lot of money for redoing a freeway that was already there and functioning. It's better now, but the same rationale for "why rail when the bus works" is the same. And I still maintain that the Katy Freeway will be back to its same old slow state within a decade. You know how when somebody gets on here and says "hey, I'm moving to Houston, I want a big house with nice schools etc. etc." and somebody comes up and goes "hey, avoid 290, that commute blows, but do Katy because I-10's a breeze!" And so that drives demand that way. Sooner or later we end up right back where we were with gridlock on that freeway.

Can you tell me anywhere along the rail line that is worse off than it was before the construction began? If anything, there are a few stretches that haven't changed much - the part around the Pierce Elevated and the Greyhound station comes to mind. I realize some businesses closed, but major road projects can be just as disruptive. I remember driving through Stafford when they had 90A torn up and there were actual signs on the other side of the road that basically screamed "hey, we're open, come do business with us, please?" I mean, if we want to never interfere with anyone's business, we could always just quit upgrading transportation infrastructure altogether.

[matthou]

Originally Posted by jfre81

Well, METRO didn't even own that rail line, one of the railroad companies did.

METRO owned the rights to the line.

Originally Posted by jfre81

I fully admit to not knowing exact figures but the point remains, that's a whole lot of money for redoing a freeway that was already there and functioning.

A car with low fluids functions too but not for long. I guess you see no problem that the average speed on the freeway was less than 40 mph for the majority of the day? That's not functioning. It's like those people in Montrose who can't flush their toilets all the time because the antiquated sewer system was not designed for so many users so sewer comes into their homes.

Originally Posted by jfre81

It's better now, but the same rationale for "why rail when the bus works" is the same. And I still maintain that the Katy Freeway will be back to its same old slow state within a decade.

Again infrastructure must be maintained. We're seeing the problems post Bill White on both roads and the water system. We have to maintain both systems or it results in problems like we are having now.

Originally Posted by jfre81

Can you tell me anywhere along the rail line that is worse off than it was before the construction began? If anything, there are a few stretches that haven't changed much - the part around the Pierce Elevated and the Greyhound station comes to mind.

Main Street in Midtown sure has taken a beating. Two vietnamese restaurants closed, the religious store closed, several antiques stores closed. Wadler Kaplan closed, The orginal po boy closed......

[HookTheBrotherUp]

Originally Posted by matthou

METRO owned the rights to the line.

Not sure what point you are making here, matthou, I think you might be confused on ownership. From what I understood from jfre81's comments is that a railroad company owned the right-of-way, which is correct. METRO never owned the right-of-way, TxDOT owned the right-of-way along I10 after TxDOT purchased it in 1998 from Uion Pacific Railroad for $78 million dollars for 28 miles. METRO does not have that kind of money to purchase railroads, however, it does have taxing authority over the area.

Harris County and TxDOT is a partnership, and METRO was included in the first tri-party agreement to operate toll lanes on an interstate highway, so that is how METRO is involved... METRO does not own any concrete, and is just an operator.

[matthou]

Originally Posted by HookTheBrotherUp

Harris County and TxDOT is a partnership, and METRO was included in the first tri-party agreement to operate toll lanes on an interstate highway, so that is how METRO is involved... METRO does not own any concrete, and is just an operator.

METRO does buy property such as rail right of ways.

The Harris County portion of the Westpark tollway right of way was acquired by HCTRA from METRO, which had previously purchased the entire railroad right-of-way from Southern Pacific in 1992.

[HookTheBrotherUp]

Originally Posted by matthou

METRO does buy property such as rail right of ways.

The Harris County portion of the Westpark tollway right of way was acquired by HCTRA from METRO, which had previously purchased the entire railroad right-of-way from Southern Pacific in 1992.

There was a big lawsuit about this years ago; I thought you and jfre81 were only talking about I10 and that is what I was commenting on.

[blkgiraffe]

It's lot of construction and destruction happening on Scott St.

The medians are being removed and paved over and lots of buildings have been knocked down; including everyone's favorite hotel (Palace Inn!).

[crystalblue]

why is there no connection at the north end of the uptown line and the north line?

seems kinda incomplete to me...

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by crystalblue

why is there no connection at the north end of the uptown line and the north line?

seems kinda incomplete to me...

There's going to be another line down Washington Avenue from the NW Transit Center. That's sort of a connection.