Houston's long-term future is bleak without serious mass transit and efforts to lure young professionals (Pearland: schools, college)

[Zhang Fei]

Originally Posted by coog78

This backwards, conservative mentality of ME, ME, ME is ridiculous and self-absorbed.

It's backwards and conservative to oppose your reaching into my wallet via the political process? That's a head scratcher. You don't see me going around proposing things that benefit me at your expense. I guess theft is your definition of forward-thinking and liberal.

[Zhang Fei]

Don't know what to make of these City Data stats, but interesting charts, anyway:

Distribution of Houston commute times:


Distribution of NYC commute times:


Note that in terms of land area, Houston is more than 50% bigger than NYC. And NYC isn't just Manhattan - it's also Queens, Brooklyn, the Bronx and Staten Island.

[oceangaia]

That's interesting that the relative distribution of commute times is very similar, and that both show a dramatic drop in the 25-30 minute slot and a sharp spike in the 30-35 minute slot.

[Zhang Fei]

Originally Posted by DiverTodd62

That's interesting that the relative distribution of commute times is very similar, and that both show a dramatic drop in the 25-30 minute slot and a sharp spike in the 30-35 minute slot.

NYC looks a lot worse - look at the huge proportion of people with commute times of 40 minutes and longer. I've taken a lot of these lines. If you work in Manhattan and can only afford to live on Staten Island or the Bronx, the one-way daily commute is easily over an hour, including train changes, despite the fact that the road distance is only 10 miles.

[Wysiwyg]

Originally Posted by Zhang Fei

Don't know what to make of these City Data stats, but interesting charts, anyway:

Distribution of Houston commute times:


Distribution of NYC commute times:


Note that in terms of land area, Houston is more than 50% bigger than NYC. And NYC isn't just Manhattan - it's also Queens, Brooklyn, the Bronx and Staten Island.

i think that includes people residing in NY Upstate, possibly, NJ, CT, PA, LongIsland. and considering the many bodies of water to cross, people working the late shift when trains are less frequent

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Zhang Fei

NYC looks a lot worse - look at the huge proportion of people with commute times of 40 minutes and longer. I've taken a lot of these lines. If you work in Manhattan and can only afford to live on Staten Island or the Bronx, the one-way daily commute is easily over an hour, including train changes, despite the fact that the road distance is only 10 miles.

I said similar, not identical.

[Zhang Fei]

Originally Posted by Wysiwyg

i think that includes people residing NY Upstate, possibly, NJ, CT, LongIsland. and considering the many bodies of water to cross

The East and Hudson Rivers are a mile wide each. Regrettably, subway trains don't seem to speed up after going through tunnels or over bridges. This isn't a New York phenomenon. I've taken city mass transit in London, Hong Kong, Singapore, Beijing, Boston, DC, Malaysia, Guangzhou, Beijing and Shanghai. If you look at them on a map, none of them go significant distances very quickly. They just seem fast because trains are noisy, and the mind associates engine/track noise with speed.

I've also spent decades in NYC. I've taken trains everywhere. The Valley Stream Walmart where the security guard was trampled is about 16 road miles from northern Manhattan. The journey takes 1-1/2 hours by bus and by subway train. That is literally 10 miles an hour. I've taken trains from the middle of Brooklyn to Manhattan during rush hour where, including train changes, the commute time was 1h 10 mins.

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by DiverTodd62

Maybe you missed the Chron story a week ago about Houston setting a record low days of ozone violation? "This year, Houston had a record-low 16 days that exceeded federal health-based standards for ground-level ozone, an invisible gas that is smog's main ingredient. Not long ago, such days occurred more than 60 times a year."

Nope, I caught that. I also caught that this happened in a year during which gasoline spiked to upwards of $4/gal prompting less driving and more carpooling/METRO use. This meant less one-per-vehicle driving. Would you argue that this is just a coincidence?

Technology is solving that problem. Cars are running cleaner and cleaner, and we will have electric cars before Houston could ever build out a rail system that served any significant part of the area.

A lot of what's causing the delays I address here in a bit...also, just because electric cars come about doesn't mean that everyone embraces them. Yes, the Priuses flew off the lots but that was when the gas prices were sky high. You have a lot of people who want the big hulking V8 Hummers and stuff like that as long as gas is cheap. We're probably a long way before anything electric replaces something like that. Not that automakers, American ones anyhow, have much capital to invest in the development of anything to that end right now or for the foreseeable future.

And here's the other thing - yes, some people like driving the Hummers, but then there are people who don't really like driving at all. I'm kind of in between. I love getting out on a road trip, but just getting around town, most of the time I'm amongst a bunch of cellphone-wielding imbeciles paying no mind to what they're doing. When I am around these people I derive not enjoyment, but mental pictures of a bullet piercing their skulls in slow motion. Basically, it's not the driving I hate, it's people. Sure, you have to be around people on the bus or the train, but they're not piloting potentially lethal weapons. I can just put on the headphones and ignore them. To do that behind the wheel of a car is to tempt fate.

I once saw some figures on the Main St light rail line that based on the projected pollution reduction, it would be 2030 before it offset the added pollution from building the rail line.

And once again this is the "well, the Main Street Line did not accomplish X or Y by Year Z so it is a failure and we should abandon the whole idea." The Red Line was never intended to be the be-all-end-all of rail. It was the beginning. We'd have the University Line under construction and on its way to opening soon if not for the NIMBYs on either side (Afton Oaks, Third Ward). You also say this as if constructing freeways doesn't produce any pollution.

And I'm not against rail - if it makes economic sense. I publicly promise that I will support any rail line that can cover just 80% of operating expenses with user fares. I'll accept subsidizing the capital infrastructure expense and 20% of operating expense.

Maybe you're not reading my facts and figures or maybe you don't believe them, but I'll ask again - given how much other cities have spent on rail to serve so few, how do you propose that we pay for a system that can serve any significant part of the region? Keep in mind that through the 1% sales tax for Metro - which most suburbanites pay yet receive absolutely nothing from Metro in return - "mass transit" is already one of our biggest local tax burdens.

My suggestion would be for - and maybe with a new administration that seems to have transportation infrastructure as a priority - that the federal financing guidelines are currently biased towards road/freeway construction and away from mass transit. The feds hardly bat an eye at pumping money into freeways but require all these expensive studies trying to project future ridership based on current and past demographics for something like a light rail line, almost as if to carry out the narrative of "well, rail is expensive so let's not do that."

Then there's the possibility of selling ads on buses and trains, much like you'd see in NYC or DC. I don't know why that's not being done here. You could recoup some more money like that and get it at or close to this 80% figure you find acceptable (and is reasonable).

If you don't want to pay a METRO tax, you're more than welcome to move to Pearland or some other non-METRO suburb. Nothing's stopping you, and then you won't have to worry about it. It'll be someone else's baby. I will say that it's good that you're not insisting that it make money. Transportation infrastructure is simply not a money-maker, but it's necessary.

I don't like the way the METRO organization works in most cases (raising fares just as gasoline prices were becoming sane again was idiotic, to name just one example), but it doesn't change the fact that we need a viable alternative to driving everywhere.

[Spade]

If it wasn't for the cost to build rail, nobody would really throw any disadvantages of a rail system at the pro rail crowd (which I am). I live in the DC area and I love the train. It is much easier, less stressful, more reliable, and much more quicker. But Houston should take care of Houston. Worry about the burbs later. And Houston should put it stations in places where people will go. If you do put them out in the middle of nowhere, make sure that is a prime area for real estate (like Dallas did for it's system). But Houston needs to take care of the inner loop and the highly populated and highly visited areas outside the loop first. The suburbs can wait.

But another reason why road looks like the better solution is because the way Houston was built. Mom2Feebs already brought up one point in that there is no zoning. That hinders Houston a bit that it is confused on what it wants to do sometimes. The other thing is that the way it was developed and the size of the city the development is in. Houston area is WAY to big to ever form a successful rail network. Houston's large size and it's low density suburban development pattern relies mostly on the road to move people around the city. If Houston really wants to densify it's core and it does indeed densify, than they will find out that the road will no longer work out if they do not work on another alternative.

I think someone brought up that only 10% of the DC population only uses mass transit. Well that's because the DC area is pretty big. But believe what I say, if rail was to ever venture out to Prince Williams County or into more places in Loundon or Montgomery county in Maryland, you'd see that 10% number skyrocket. DC has some of the worse traffic in America. That's part of the reason why people in Loundon and Fairfax county are screaming for the Silver line to be approved and once they get all the funds, it will start construction immediately. Once completed, the system will easily surpass the 1 million mark for rides a day and will become the second system in the country to do so.

What hurts Houston from getting a rail system is cost and it's low density development.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by jfre81

And here's the other thing - yes, some people like driving the Hummers, but then there are people who don't really like driving at all. I'm kind of in between. I love getting out on a road trip, but just getting around town, most of the time I'm amongst a bunch of cellphone-wielding imbeciles paying no mind to what they're doing. When I am around these people I derive not enjoyment, but mental pictures of a bullet piercing their skulls in slow motion. Basically, it's not the driving I hate, it's people. Sure, you have to be around people on the bus or the train, but they're not piloting potentially lethal weapons. I can just put on the headphones and ignore them. To do that behind the wheel of a car is to tempt fate.



.

That's like me. I'm not anti-car either and I love the random joy rides. I also like that I can carry my grocery shopping or whatever large quantity of shopping I do in my car. I dislike taking groceries on the train. You can live in a world with both alternatives.