Houston's long-term future is bleak without serious mass transit and efforts to lure young professionals (Dallas: leasing, homes)

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by txguy2009

As for heat.... there are these neat devices called indoors and air-conditioning now. You can sit in a place when it's hot outside and remain nice and cool

Wow, we're gonna have climate controlled tunnels from our houses to the rail stations?

[txguy2009]

Originally Posted by DiverTodd62

Wow, we're gonna have climate controlled tunnels from our houses to the rail stations?

It's called parking garages

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by txguy2009

It's called parking garages

Yes, my attached 2-car garage allows me to completely avoid the heat and rain, but tell me again how that gets me to a train station?

[txguy2009]

Originally Posted by DiverTodd62

Yes, my attached 2-car garage allows me to completely avoid the heat and rain, but tell me again how that gets me to a train station?

Uh...you park at the parking garage near the train station. Surely you're not so delicate you can't walk 20 yards??? How do you go to the store for godssake.


Dude, seriously, your arguments are weak. DC freaking is hot and humid as hell and they have no problems.

Even if systems don't pay for themselves are subsidized by tax, it's worth it, because you're drawing in a very productive element (young creative class) who contribute a lot to the economy, and want a certain car-free lifestyle to go with it.

[Zhang Fei]

Originally Posted by txguy2009

Uh...you park at the parking garage near the train station. Surely you're not so delicate you can't walk 20 yards??? How do you go to the store for godssake.


Dude, seriously, your arguments are weak. DC freaking is hot and humid as hell and they have no problems.

Even if systems don't pay for themselves are subsidized by tax, it's worth it, because you're drawing in a very productive element (young creative class) who contribute a lot to the economy, and want a certain car-free lifestyle to go with it.

Parking garages = car-free lifestyle? Look, I understand you want this stuff, and you want somebody else to pay your way. But when you reach into somebody else's pocket, it's not good enough to just say everyone else will benefit. You need to come up with hard numbers.

[txguy2009]

Originally Posted by Zhang Fei

Parking garages = car-free lifestyle? Look, I understand you want this stuff, and you want somebody else to pay your way. But when you reach into somebody else's pocket, it's not good enough to just say everyone else will benefit. You need to come up with hard numbers.

Dude I'm talking about heavy rail - life in the 'burbs. And anyway, I'm addressing YOUR problems - less lazy people could walk to the station presumably, but it makes sense to put parking garages near them for those who will drive. Light rail gives people car-free in the city (I already to this most of the time). If you're so lazy you can't walk a block to the light rail station....you have serious issues, and no wonder Houston is fat.

Hard numbers? Look at the types of cities where creative class people flock to. It's cities that offer a certain lifestyle. I don't see a lot of those types flocking to Houston.

The point is to give people OPTIONS as to lifestyle. In Houston, we have the whole drive everywhere thing down. That lifestyle is accounted for. We do not have options for people who want that other lifestyle.

As for "paying for it with somebody else's money" - the lifestyle of driving everywhere is costing us more in aesthetics, pollution, and quality of life.

[Zhang Fei]

Originally Posted by txguy2009

Light rail gives people car-free in the city (I already to this most of the time). If you're so lazy you can't walk a block to the light rail station....you have serious issues, and no wonder Houston is fat.

One or two blocks? That sounds like fantasy land. New York City, which has almost 8 times Houston's (city center) population density, features 5 to 10 minute walks to the subway, if you walk fast, like me. And that's not just one or two blocks.

Originally Posted by txguy2009

Hard numbers? Look at the types of cities where creative class people flock to. It's cities that offer a certain lifestyle. I don't see a lot of those types flocking to Houston.

These aren't hard numbers. The creative centers of America (and I don't mean people like Andy Warhol or Jackson Pollock) during the post-WWII era have not been cities with mass transit. Silicon Valley is clearly not a center of mass transit. New York City has been treading water for almost 70 years. Washington DC is a wasteland, except for government and defense contracts. The companies that spawned the networking sector in Massachusetts were certainly not in an area served by the Boston subway. The one thing these creative centers have in common is proximity to major universities. The sad reality about New York City is that despite having New York and Columbia University among its institutions of higher learning, the only creativity it generates is in sectors it has dominated simply because of tradition - fashion, finance and advertising. None of this has anything to do with subways. Or light rail.

Originally Posted by txguy2009

As for "paying for it with somebody else's money" - the lifestyle of driving everywhere is costing us more in aesthetics, pollution, and quality of life.

Suburbanites could equally say that urban areas are eyesores and crime incubators that really need to be demolished and pastoralized, and that urbanites really ought to pay for the trouble they cause by subsidizing gasoline prices.

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by txguy2009

Dude I'm talking about heavy rail - life in the 'burbs. And anyway, I'm addressing YOUR problems - less lazy people could walk to the station presumably, but it makes sense to put parking garages near them for those who will drive. Light rail gives people car-free in the city (I already to this most of the time). If you're so lazy you can't walk a block to the light rail station....you have serious issues, and no wonder Houston is fat.

And that's why METRO has a commuter rail plan. the NW, SE, and SW corridors are first in line. Soon after, METRO will build commuter rail alongside the Westpark Tollway. If the railroad companies will cooperate, they can have the NW line up in just 18 months. The commuter rail brings the people into the cities to use the light rail system (which will be heavily expanded by then).

[crbcrbrgv]

Originally Posted by Topaz

"Angst about Houston" - that cracked me up.

Ugh, Portland...my family lived there for less than a year but Portland has got to be the most overrated city in America.

Actually, I'd say Austin.

[txguy2009]

Originally Posted by Zhang Fei

One or two blocks? That sounds like fantasy land. New York City, which has almost 8 times Houston's (city center) population density, features 5 to 10 minute walks to the subway, if you walk fast, like me. And that's not just one or two blocks.These aren't hard numbers. The creative centers of America (and I don't mean people like Andy Warhol or Jackson Pollock) during the post-WWII era have not been cities with mass transit. Silicon Valley is clearly not a center of mass transit. New York City has been treading water for almost 70 years. Washington DC is a wasteland, except for government and defense contracts. The companies that spawned the networking sector in Massachusetts were certainly not in an area served by the Boston subway. The one thing these creative centers have in common is proximity to major universities. The sad reality about New York City is that despite having New York and Columbia University among its institutions of higher learning, the only creativity it generates is in sectors it has dominated simply because of tradition - fashion, finance and advertising. None of this has anything to do with subways. Or light rail.Suburbanites could equally say that urban areas are eyesores and crime incubators that really need to be demolished and pastoralized, and that urbanites really ought to pay for the trouble they cause by subsidizing gasoline prices.

Firstly, the Bay Area has **much** better public transit than we do. San Jose blows us out of the water.

And again, you're missing the point. The point isn't that NYC is great b/c of mass transit. It's that young people - today - value cities where they have the option to live a truly urban lifestyle, near a dense core. The causal story isn't as simplistic as you're trying to make it out to be.

Graduates from elite universities see Houston as a suburban wasteland, and rightly so. These people do not want to live in a city like Houston because it does not offer them the choice to lead the kind of lifestyle they want.

I've worked for legal recruiting for my law firm. We visit the top, elite law schools like columbia, yale, stanford, chicago, michigan, harvard, penn, etc. It is MUCH harder to recruit people to come to Houston, and people regularly make comments about how it's one big strip mall, you have to drive to get anywhere, etc. The only people who tend to come to Houston are people with a prior connection to the area, whereas people regularly go to SF, Chicago, Boston, or DC with no prior connection. People don't question going to those cities, but look at you funny if you go to Houston.

You're absolutely right that education centers are key too.