Houston's long-term future is bleak without serious mass transit and efforts to lure young professionals (Austin: limo, construction)

[Trae713]

Will you stop? Graduates see Houston has a suburban wasteland? Why do they keep moving here in droves then and leave places like the Bay Area? Sheesh.

[cubssoxfan]

You can't rail your way out of congestion anymore than you can pave your way out of it. The cities who have built rail systems over the last 20 years have seen the most increased congestion. No rail system has ever solved the congestion problem, anywhere.

Very well said. However, you need BOTH!. Personally, I do not see a "world class" city that does not have a good public transit network. Relying on buses only, does not cut it. It may be more perception than actual results, but that's how I see it and perhaps many others as well. Also perhaps, is how walkable the city and its surrounding communities are. Houston is very spotty here compared with NY, Boston, DC, Chicago and San Fran. Some areas quite walkable, others-especially in the suburbs-are designed very narrow mindedly with no interconnecting sidewalks and bike paths between subdivisions and neighborhoods. Only the Master Planned suburbs and the older burbs seem to have decent inter-connected pedestrian infrastructure. You might be wondering what the point is, well how appealing is taking a bus or train and having to walk on a street with traffic wizzing by? How appealing is it to bike to a local library with your kids if there are not paths or sidewalks to safely do this? I am picking on Houston a little bit here, because that's what I saw on my outside the loop tour. But many suburbs have the same problems. So it's great to have trains and buses, but build ways of walking or riding to the stop or station.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by txguy2009

Uh...you park at the parking garage near the train station. Surely you're not so delicate you can't walk 20 yards??? How do you go to the store for godssake.


Dude, seriously, your arguments are weak. DC freaking is hot and humid as hell and they have no problems.

Even if systems don't pay for themselves are subsidized by tax, it's worth it, because you're drawing in a very productive element (young creative class) who contribute a lot to the economy, and want a certain car-free lifestyle to go with it.

Dude, I thought we were talking about a "car-free" lifestyle? You even mentioned it again in this post. If you're driving to the train station and parking in their parking garage, how is that "car-free"?

If I have to get in my car and drive, I might as well keep on going to my final destination.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by txguy2009

And again, you're missing the point. The point isn't that NYC is great b/c of mass transit. It's that young people - today - value cities where they have the option to live a truly urban lifestyle, near a dense core. The causal story isn't as simplistic as you're trying to make it out to be.

No, you're missing the point. You already have OPTIONS. You have the option to move to one of those enlightened and progressive cities you admire.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

Very well said. However, you need BOTH!. Personally, I do not see a "world class" city that does not have a good public transit network. Relying on buses only, does not cut it. It may be more perception than actual results, but that's how I see it and perhaps many others as well. Also perhaps, is how walkable the city and its surrounding communities are.

I agree about the walkable aspect though please spare us the "world class city" argument. The "world class city" line is how we were sold on expensive new stadiums for baseball, football, and basketball. Funny how our teams played better in the old facilities. The "world class city" line is how we were sold on the Main St. light rail, that was out of commission for a month after Ike. Good thing the whole city wasn't built around light rail or we still might not be up and running. Could someone please give us the entire list of what it will take to be a "world class city"? I think it's a promise and illusion that will always be "just one more" big project away.

[Wysiwyg]

a commuter rail would definitely liven up a city core/downtown. alot of the weekday and afternoon partying, dating, meet ups, tourism, shopping, broadway shows, special events etc in NYC are made possible and done more successfully due to commuter trains. that city truly does not sleep. (i slept in penn station a number of times) obviously part of the crowd is just passing time waiting for trains or less crowded trains, people who cant or dont want to drive (ever), people who'd drink more that the limit for driving a car - they add to the fun landscape. this happening places are things houston will never have. sorry for those in the arts & entertainment

houston is going to be as it is right now. forever. i suggest you try out the cities you mentioned with no further hesitation. theyre there for you and are popular destinations for the ambitious, adventurous, romantic, creative and the young at heart. go and get some life experience out there in a better city, enjoy your youth in truly fantastic cities of the US. Then come back here when you get married. maybe houston will have trains by then but you'll still drive the family car to work because of the never ending errands to run being a family man. thats when you'll figure out why houston is what it is

[cubssoxfan]

I agree about the walkable aspect though please spare us the "world class city" argument. The "world class city" line is how we were sold on expensive new stadiums for baseball, football, and basketball. Funny how our teams played better in the old facilities. The "world class city" line is how we were sold on the Main St. light rail, that was out of commission for a month after Ike. Good thing the whole city wasn't built around light rail or we still might not be up and running. Could someone please give us the entire list of what it will take to be a "world class city"? I think it's a promise and illusion that will always be "just one more" big project away.

I appreciate your rebuttal. "World class" is, to a degree, perception. Let's take Chicago as an example. I can drive to a closer ring suburb, Skokie, hop on the "EL" (CTA) and take a train to watch the Cubbies. I can even take a longer ride on the same train to watch the White Sox. Can't take a convenient, right across the street train to United Center, so I always drive to Bulls/Blackhawks.
I can drive 10 minutes to a Metra commuter rail line and be in downtown in 60 minutes. Sometimes we drive, sometimes we take the train. But we have convenient options. I know there are some express buses into downtown Houston, but otherwise seems the car is really the only convenient choice. I cannot imagine Chicago without the train options. Now a lot has to do with when the respective cities went through the "boom years" Houston is catching up which is understandable. If Houston had greater growth 60-100 years ago, I believe the city would be denser and have more trains. Back before WWII, many people did not own cars or homes and public transit was highly neccesary.
So by my personal and subjective definition Houston will go a long way towards evolving from a major US city to a "world class" city when the light rail system is developed in conjunction with heavy rail connections into the farther distance suburbs AND keeps working on its pedestrian and biking infrastructure. Please note this is not meant as "Houston" bashing but meant as constructive and entertaining conversation from someone who, although briefly, has been to your interesting city and would certainly come back again. AND when I hold up US cities to the European cities/countries I have been to, many US cities have a looong way to go.

[hsw]

Amusing nonsense about mass transit and attracting yuppies

In any yuppie city w/mass transit, most affluent (and <40yo) people drive self around City or have a car and driver follow them around....

In Manhattan, many highly-paid young traders commute to office intra-Manhattan via driving self from home to office, even if it's 10-20 blks, to avoid the crappy NYC weather, smells, street crime, crazy cab drivers, etc....older, wealthier traders and financiers typically have a Merc S550/600 and driver follow them around town....and have sedans drop off their rugrats at the private schools, etc

And many other highly-paid financiers drive to their Manhattan office from Greenwich, 35mis away....sounds a lot like LA or Houston to me....

SiliconValley has lots of rather affluent yuppies...those w/o kids live in City of SF and drive 40-60mis each-way to their offices in SiliconValley....those w/kids tend to live in leafy suburbs West of PaloAlto and drive to their offices....sounds like LA or Houston to me....

Irony is that most really affluent single guys in SF (whether they are tech or financial guys) get a wkend place on LA's Westside once they can afford it....LA's climate, lifestyle, car culture and talent pool of hotties are greatly admired by many yuppies in both SiliconValley....and Manhattan

Smart yuppies tend to migrate to wherever they can most effectively pursue lucrative careers in a setting w/a high QOL....

Just as most who can afford it would prefer to fly via own large private plane, not commercial airlines, most who can afford it would prefer to commute via own private automobile, not mass transit or walking....

[txstate]

Houston is it for me young professional good looking guy like myself, cant do ATL or LA so Houston is it for me, maybe Dallas.

[Mom2Feebs]

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

I appreciate your rebuttal. "World class" is, to a degree, perception. Let's take Chicago as an example. I can drive to a closer ring suburb, Skokie, hop on the "EL" (CTA) and take a train to watch the Cubbies. I can even take a longer ride on the same train to watch the White Sox. Can't take a convenient, right across the street train to United Center, so I always drive to Bulls/Blackhawks.
I can drive 10 minutes to a Metra commuter rail line and be in downtown in 60 minutes. Sometimes we drive, sometimes we take the train. But we have convenient options. I know there are some express buses into downtown Houston, but otherwise seems the car is really the only convenient choice. I cannot imagine Chicago without the train options. Now a lot has to do with when the respective cities went through the "boom years" Houston is catching up which is understandable. If Houston had greater growth 60-100 years ago, I believe the city would be denser and have more trains. Back before WWII, many people did not own cars or homes and public transit was highly neccesary.
So by my personal and subjective definition Houston will go a long way towards evolving from a major US city to a "world class" city when the light rail system is developed in conjunction with heavy rail connections into the farther distance suburbs AND keeps working on its pedestrian and biking infrastructure. Please note this is not meant as "Houston" bashing but meant as constructive and entertaining conversation from someone who, although briefly, has been to your interesting city and would certainly come back again. AND when I hold up US cities to the European cities/countries I have been to, many US cities have a looong way to go.

Houston had trains, several years back. They were dismantled in 1949. There were over 90 miles of track in the downtown/midtown/heights area. It was quite an efficient system. What were they thinking? Ah, yes, the automobile. Affordable and easy.

I can drive from Katy to downtown in 30 minutes or less, now that the freeway is finished. I'm not sure what the appeal is of driving to a different suburb closer in and getting on the train, then going downtown, and doubling my time. I think it's a mindset one has to get used to. I was a big supporter of leasing tracks from Union Pacific (before they pulled up their track north of Old Katy Road) but that ship has obviously sailed. I think commuter rail has to be an option here in some capacity. The Park-n-Ride is very nice, but rail would be a LOT nicer.


Of course, Texans have always been different...