Police Shooting in Bellaire (Houston: rent, crimes, buy)

[LostInHouston]

Originally Posted by Wysiwyg

why is this an issue? profiling is probably the biggest factor in safety and security. its hard to police a place where everyone looks like theyre up to no good (or matches a perps description). it sucks your description lookalikes are into home invasions. it sucks my people are into unregister/illegal cars. it also sucks that middleeastern/indian people are singled out at airports. its work for security folks to check their leads even tho its as vague as skin tone/shape of eyes

It's an issue because it is unconstitutional. The 4th amendment protects us from unreasonable search and seizure. Also, civil rights laws dictate that law enforcement may only consider race when they are seeking a particular person whose description includes race.

As for the effectiveness of racial profiling, there have been many studies showing it to be bunk. For example, here was a major study in Minnesota from 2003: http://www1.umn.edu/irp/racialprof/aggregate%20report%2092303.pdf (broken link)
And they found that:

"Law enforcement officers stopped Black, Latino, and American Indian drivers at greater rates than White drivers, searched Blacks, Latinos, and American Indians at greater rates than White drivers, and found contraband as a result of searches of Blacks, Latinos, and American Indians at lower rates than in searches of White drivers. Conversely, law enforcement officers stopped and searched White drivers at lower rates than drivers of color and found contraband in searches of White drivers at a greater rate than in searches of drivers of color."

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by LostInHouston

It's an issue because it is unconstitutional. The 4th amendment protects us from unreasonable search and seizure. Also, civil rights laws dictate that law enforcement may only consider race when they are seeking a particular person whose description includes race.

As for the effectiveness of racial profiling, there have been many studies showing it to be bunk. For example, here was a major study in Minnesota from 2003: http://www1.umn.edu/irp/racialprof/aggregate%20report%2092303.pdf (broken link)
And they found that:

"Law enforcement officers stopped Black, Latino, and American Indian drivers at greater rates than White drivers, searched Blacks, Latinos, and American Indians at greater rates than White drivers, and found contraband as a result of searches of Blacks, Latinos, and American Indians at lower rates than in searches of White drivers. Conversely, law enforcement officers stopped and searched White drivers at lower rates than drivers of color and found contraband in searches of White drivers at a greater rate than in searches of drivers of color."

Your data is HIGHLY skewed. As shown here per Wiki Whites make up a whopping 87% of Minnesota's 2006 population so its only common sense there would be a much greater number of Whites engaging in criminal activities than minorities. 2003 figures as you have presented probably push the White population closer towards 90%.

• 87.3% White (non-Hispanic);
• 4.4% Black (non-Hispanic);
• 3.8% Hispanic, a category that includes people of many races;
• 3.4% Asian/Pacific Islander;
• 1% Native American/Alaskan Native;
• 1.6% mixed race;
• 1.6% other races.

[Wysiwyg]

Originally Posted by LostInHouston

It's an issue because it is unconstitutional. The 4th amendment protects us from unreasonable search and seizure. Also, civil rights laws dictate that law enforcement may only consider race when they are seeking a particular person whose description includes race.

As for the effectiveness of racial profiling, there have been many studies showing it to be bunk. For example, here was a major study in Minnesota from 2003: http://www1.umn.edu/irp/racialprof/aggregate%20report%2092303.pdf (broken link)
And they found that:

"Law enforcement officers stopped Black, Latino, and American Indian drivers at greater rates than White drivers, searched Blacks, Latinos, and American Indians at greater rates than White drivers, and found contraband as a result of searches of Blacks, Latinos, and American Indians at lower rates than in searches of White drivers. Conversely, law enforcement officers stopped and searched White drivers at lower rates than drivers of color and found contraband in searches of White drivers at a greater rate than in searches of drivers of color."

This research shows that it does work. That normally profiled people will have to be very stupid to carry contraband or act aggressively against an officer's instructions.

[LostInHouston]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

Your data is HIGHLY skewed. As shown here per Wiki Whites make up a whopping 87% of Minnesota's 2006 population so its only common sense there would be a much greater number of Whites engaging in criminal activities than minorities. 2003 figures as you have presented probably push the White population closer towards 90%.

• 87.3% White (non-Hispanic);
• 4.4% Black (non-Hispanic);
• 3.8% Hispanic, a category that includes people of many races;
• 3.4% Asian/Pacific Islander;
• 1% Native American/Alaskan Native;
• 1.6% mixed race;
• 1.6% other races.

If you had gone to the linked paper, you would have seen that the data is presented as a percentage of searches resulting in contraband... thus the racial makeup of Minnesota is taken out of the equations. Here is another quote from the paper:

"These disparities in discretionary search rates are particularly troubling given the rates at which contraband was found as a result of these searches, i.e. the hit rates. Overall, 24% of discretionary searches of Whites produced contraband compared to only 11% of searched of Blacks and 9% of searches of Latinos."

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by LostInHouston

If you had gone to the linked paper, you would have seen that the data is presented as a percentage of searches resulting in contraband... thus the racial makeup of Minnesota is taken out of the equations. Here is another quote from the paper:

"These disparities in discretionary search rates are particularly troubling given the rates at which contraband was found as a result of these searches, i.e. the hit rates. Overall, 24% of discretionary searches of Whites produced contraband compared to only 11% of searched of Blacks and 9% of searches of Latinos."

It fails to provide "said" contraband. Could have been something as minor as possessing a knife that was half an inch too long or as serious as being caught smuggling a few Ecstacy pills from Canada. Piddly stuff.

[latetotheparty]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

And you seem rather defensive of this incident by deflecting blame by suggesting this type of situation occurs everwhere when this incident was unique enough to be given a full piece on REAL SPORTS. You didn't acknowledge or address any of the statistics I brought forth. This is a unique situation and I think it makes little sense to compare this other incidents because they have little in common with this incident. Perhaps, you should acknowledge that Houston does have a problem with racial tolerance and should seek to improve in that area instead of being an apologist. What also makes this situation unique is how unapologetic the city seems to be about this. They didn't suspend the police without pay. The police are still being paid. And the city also lied by publicly stating they had never been reprimanded when both police officers had a bad record and had been written up multiple times. And to make matters worse, the district attorney who will preside over this case is a former police officer and a conservative Republican. It would not suprise me to see the Bellaire police get a tap on the wrist. Again, when incidents like these occur in other cities, the city usually issues a public apology and reprimans the authorities involved. This hasn't been the case in Bellaire thus far which is unique.

oh trust me ..... the problem is NOT limited to houston.... or the "south."

[usc619]

After reading some of the garbage on this thread last night I decided to stay up and watch HBO Real Sports. After watching the show, all I could do is shake my head in disgust.

Remember folks, Houston is still the South!

[latetotheparty]

Originally Posted by jimboburnsy

I don't think that the residents or racial makeup of the City of Bellaire had much to do with this. The Bellaire Police Department, to a man, has some serious attitude issues and they have a long history of questionable application of force. Bellaire is bordered by some less than desirable neighborhoods (and parts of Bellaire can get a tad shady) so the Bellaire PD has adopted the stance that a large portion of their modus operandi is to discourage non-residents from crossing the bounds. This discouragement seems, at times, to be manifested in the form of aggressive hassling and rough shakedowns. Resisting a rough shakedown may result in violence.

i went to high school at marian back in the mid- to late 70's .... when it was still a catholic school..... and even THEN the bellaire police had this reputation.......

[usc619]

Mr. Sykes and LostInHouston, you folks really need to quit using common sense. This is a message board for goodness sake.

[MrSykes]

Originally Posted by Wysiwyg

why is this an issue? profiling is probably the biggest factor in safety and security. its hard to police a place where everyone looks like theyre up to no good (or matches a perps description). it sucks your description lookalikes are into home invasions. it sucks my people are into unregister/illegal cars. it also sucks that middleeastern/indian people are singled out at airports. its work for security folks to check their leads even tho its as vague as skin tone/shape of eyes

Easy to say when you're not the one constantly being profiled, singled out, and made an example of, no matter how much effort you put into being an upstanding citizen DESPITE how you are viewed on a social level. It's like a little voice constantly screaming "You're a potential danger to civil society" over and over again in your ear no matter how hard you try to counter it, supplant it or tune it out. It's no wonder some minorities tend to become a bit neurotic over race.