Survey: Many Houstonians want better land use planning, urban renewal (Alamo: buy, subdivision)

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by matthou

Yes but now more money has to be moved elsewhere because the employee population overall has moved.


Yes the limited public funding will now have to be used in other areas

Yep, I said this posts ago.

Call me a slow learner if you will, but what is your point exactly? I've actually been wondering that for a couple days running now, but never just came out and asked directly.

If I have to guess, it's that you want to shift resources away from established centers in the city that you are trying to present as not growing when they actually are, throwing around percentages that only work the way you want them to work if the base number remains constant. When we are talking population figures from now to 15 years down the road, they're not staying constant. And you have the guts to call other people "misleading."

That's cool, I like people with guts, but that doesn't mean I won't call you on something.

Originally Posted by neotextist

Maybe, but the difference is that most cities realized their error.

Except the error they realized is those projects did not do what they hoped, and now they're facing negative growth instead of positive growth for the most part. Houston, on the other hand, has been growing almost continuously since then save for a post-oil bust hiccup in the late 80s. It was also experiencing a massive boom during the "tear everything old down" craze that was going around in large cities most everywhere.

Not every building is going to be saved anywhere. Even NYC has a bunch that are not in good shape and will be gone eventually. Some are better taken care of than others. We saw that here with the Savoy (which is gone, the old building anyway) but the Beaconsfield a block away is still there and is well preserved.

People are getting more into the preservation thing around here. There's a petition going to get Alamo Drafthouse to move into the Alabama and keep it in its current state. Generally, there a lot more history intact here than people give credit. Sure, it could've been better, but it could be a lot worse. We could've had the whole Market Square section of downtown cleared away for new skyscrapers in the 70s, but we didn't - they were built in a relatively newer part of downtown to the south, and what's there is in Market Square is what's been there for upwards of a century. Houston also never really got into systematically bulldozing entire neighborhoods. Look at it this way - if this was Cincinnati or Pittsburgh, Old Sixth Ward might have bit the dust 40 years ago and we'd probably have decrepit public housing blocks in its place.

[matthou]

Originally Posted by jfre81

Call me a slow learner if you will, but what is your point exactly? I've actually been wondering that for a couple days running now, but never just came out and asked directly.

If I have to guess, it's that you want to shift resources away from established centers in the city that you are trying to present as not growing when they actually are, throwing around percentages that only work the way you want them to work if the base number remains constant. When we are talking population figures from now to 15 years down the road, they're not staying constant. And you have the guts to call other people "misleading."

That's cool, I like people with guts, but that doesn't mean I won't call you on something.

Part of the HGAC's job is to estimate population growth and employment shifts which is essential for planning. The cities in the Houston metropolitan area all use the data and are members of the organization. If you don't believe the numbers, that's your prerogative You wanted the numbers, I'm simply presenting them. You want everyone here to think that people are rushing to move inside the loop. They aren't overall. Yes people are moving inside the loop but you are just outright ignoring that more are moving outside the loop as are a larger portion of the jobs.

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by matthou

Part of the HGAC's job is to estimate population growth and employment shifts which is essential for planning. The cities in the Houston metropolitan area all use the data and are members of the organization. If you don't believe the numbers, that's your prerogative You wanted the numbers, I'm simply presenting them. You want everyone here to think that people are rushing to move inside the loop. They aren't overall. Yes people are moving inside the loop but you are just outright ignoring that more are moving outside the loop as are a larger portion of the jobs.

And I have demonstrated that regardless of percentages, the inner city is still growing and is still projected to do so, yet you seem to want to divert the resources elsewhere. Outer-loop, outer-beltway has the infrastructure already. There's freeways, there's newer utility lines, wider streets, everything. How many more freeways do we need, man? Sure, we could use some commuter rail and I hope that happens, but it would work in concert with an inner city rail system. How else are people going to get around after riding into the city? You said yourself they won't ride the bus. Need I go grab a quote? You seem to be doing that with me every chance you get.

You are still trying to turn this into an either-or debate. Are you trying to get us to believe that suburban interests are underserved here? Get real.

[Trae713]

I know right? Just because the suburbs are growing faster than the Inner Loop does not mean the Inner Loop is not growing. It just means that people are finding different areas to live at in Houston. It use to be just the suburbs that are growing, and Inner Loop growth was minimal, but not anymore. With all that's there already, Inner Loop Houston has the chance to be the best urban core in Texas, in my opinion. Just need to get the light rail up and running. Then, more transit-oriented developments will follow (many mixed-use developments are already there).

[dv1033]

Originally Posted by matthou

Part of the HGAC's job is to estimate population growth and employment shifts which is essential for planning. The cities in the Houston metropolitan area all use the data and are members of the organization. If you don't believe the numbers, that's your prerogative You wanted the numbers, I'm simply presenting them. You want everyone here to think that people are rushing to move inside the loop. They aren't overall. Yes people are moving inside the loop but you are just outright ignoring that more are moving outside the loop as are a larger portion of the jobs.

Regardless, we still need some sort of idea of how we move forward inside the loop and outside the loop.

[matthou]

Originally Posted by dv1033

Regardless, we still need some sort of idea of how we move forward inside the loop and outside the loop.

Oh I agree, focus should be citywide, not certain neighborhoods or areas.

[matthou]

Originally Posted by jfre81

Outer-loop, outer-beltway has the infrastructure already. There's freeways, there's newer utility lines, wider streets, everything.

I guess you don't understand that infrastructure needs to be maintained. Last time I went out to the westside, roadwork was going on, sewer work was going on, etc. This all involves money. Look at the City of Houston master road plan sometime. Sounds like it will be an eye opener for you.

Originally Posted by jfre81

How many more freeways do we need, man? Sure, we could use some commuter rail and I hope that happens, but it would work in concert with an inner city rail system. How else are people going to get around after riding into the city? You said yourself they won't ride the bus. Need I go grab a quote? You seem to be doing that with me every chance you get.

You are still trying to turn this into an either-or debate. Are you trying to get us to believe that suburban interests are underserved here? Get real.

Who said anything about more freeways? Who said anything about suburban interests are underserved? The misquotes are getting old.

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by matthou

I guess you don't understand that infrastructure needs to be maintained. Last time I went out to the westside, roadwork was going on, sewer work was going on, etc. This all involves money. Look at the City of Houston master road plan sometime. Sounds like it will be an eye opener for you.

I'm going to ignore the attack on my intelligence and just say I'm aware that roads and utilities require maintenance and maintenance requires money.

Who said anything about more freeways? Who said anything about suburban interests are underserved? The misquotes are getting old.

Then I'll ask again - what is your point here? I'm at a loss to determine what it is.

[matthou]

Originally Posted by jfre81

I'm going to ignore the attack on my intelligence and just say I'm aware that roads and utilities require maintenance and maintenance requires money.

Infrastructure is a citywide concern and it needs to be maintained as such.

Originally Posted by jfre81

Then I'll ask again - what is your point here? I'm at a loss to determine what it is.

I only quoted you. I made no mention of building more freeways or that suburban interests are underserved. It was a clarification.

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by matthou

Infrastructure is a citywide concern and it needs to be maintained as such.

Right. Everyone knows that. What's your point again?

You see, there's a difference from "misquoting" somebody and trying to guess at what their position is when all they're doing is stating the obvious.

I only quoted you. I made no mention of building more freeways or that suburban interests are underserved. It was a clarification.

Except you haven't clarified anything. At all. You keep going on repeating the same thing, but we never touch on how or what should be done. Suburban Houston is growing. We agree on that. But you know, the infrastructure is there for them. Yes, it must be maintained. Everyone knows that. This is all obvious stuff. But the point I'm making is that there is also a demand for a more urban living experience for people who either want that lifestyle, want to be close to work, or both. People do things in cities other than work too, you know. Even if that figure is 30-40 percent and does not constitute a majority, that is still a large minority and it should not be ignored. Furthermore, the infrastructure for the urban core is lagging well behind that which serves suburban living, a lot of which is outside Houston itself and even Harris County.