Survey: Many Houstonians want better land use planning, urban renewal (Dallas: condos, hotel)

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by usc619

Obviously our definition of "better kept up" is different

Post the ghetto areas you were talking about that are better kept up than Katy.

[Malvie]

Originally Posted by usc619

LOL, I guess the 100's of brave souls that moved into Alief in the past 5yrs. will get the ball rolling

Well, they're doing it in Wynnewood in Dallas. It was in the same boat as Alief.

Alief can come back. It really can.

The only thing is, picking the area right is the most important thing. I have a friend who does that very thing. He "cases" a city for ages while he's finishing his last project (usually in another city). He likes DC and he likes Little Rock, but he's done Chicago, St. Louis, and New Orleans, too. He watches and watches the demographics. He doesn't want to be the VERY first in, but he does want to be the second in. He'll buy some falling-down hovel in a neighborhood that makes Alief look like River Oaks; I'll go see him and he's living in this -literally- shack. And I'll think, "You have GOT to be kidding....you have guessed wrong this time, my friend." Inevitably, 5 years later straight white yuppies are paying enormous bucks for this great, trendy area.

Heeyyyyy---maybe I should get him to look at Alief?! Then i could swoop in behind him and snap up a bargain and do the same thing!

By the way, his degree is in finance from the University of Arkansas. He worked at Worthen Bank (largest bank in Arkansas) for years, got tired of the corporate grind, got tired of the condo, and started looking around for an old house to fix up---he loves working with his hands. After he did his first one, he quit the bank job and has made his living doing houses ever since. We are both now mid-50's. He's on a house in DC right now. He's the only white resident, the rest is solid ghetto. We shall see how he does. The last one he did in Little Rock, I thought, "you idiot". He bought it for $30,000, spent $80,000 on it, lived in it while renovating (he's good at permitting, too), and sold it last year for $350k. He'd have gotten more for it, but the economy sucks....and the house that I was looking at there 4 years ago (before I decided to move back to Houston) for $40,000 (and I thought, "no, this is just too far gone and too much of a chance for me to take) went for $290k.

I should just follow him around. He hasn't lost yet.

[usc619]

Originally Posted by Malvie

Well, they're doing it in Wynnewood in Dallas. It was in the same boat as Alief.

Alief can come back. It really can.

The only thing is, picking the area right is the most important thing. I have a friend who does that very thing. He "cases" a city for ages while he's finishing his last project (usually in another city). He likes DC and he likes Little Rock, but he's done Chicago, St. Louis, and New Orleans, too. He watches and watches the demographics. He doesn't want to be the VERY first in, but he does want to be the second in. He'll buy some falling-down hovel in a neighborhood that makes Alief look like River Oaks; I'll go see him and he's living in this -literally- shack. And I'll think, "You have GOT to be kidding....you have guessed wrong this time, my friend." Inevitably, 5 years later straight white yuppies are paying enormous bucks for this great, trendy area.

Heeyyyyy---maybe I should get him to look at Alief?! Then i could swoop in behind him and snap up a bargain and do the same thing!

By the way, his degree is in finance from the University of Arkansas. He worked at Worthen Bank (largest bank in Arkansas) for years, got tired of the corporate grind, got tired of the condo, and started looking around for an old house to fix up---he loves working with his hands. After he did his first one, he quit the bank job and has made his living doing houses ever since. We are both now mid-50's. He's on a house in DC right now. He's the only white resident, the rest is solid ghetto. We shall see how he does. The last one he did in Little Rock, I thought, "you idiot". He bought it for $30,000, spent $80,000 on it, lived in it while renovating (he's good at permitting, too), and sold it last year for $350k. He'd have gotten more for it, but the economy sucks....and the house that I was looking at there 4 years ago (before I decided to move back to Houston) for $40,000 (and I thought, "no, this is just too far gone and too much of a chance for me to take) went for $290k.

I should just follow him around. He hasn't lost yet.

I've seen this happen in North Park(San Diego) but you have to have had previous smart planning

Originally Posted by Scarface713

Post the ghetto areas you were talking about that are better kept up than Katy.

I'll use San Diego as an example,

1. Chula Vista

2. City Heights

3 Spring Valley

4. Oceanside

are all heavily populated with minorities ( so-called "ghetto") and has been around for ages..... guess what? not much white flight and the roads, buildings, and apts. are still in better condition than most of Katy....I guess we'll blame that on the weather next? Katy does have a lower crime rate (psst. for now)

[Oildog]

Thats seems to be the process. A couple pioneers go into bad areas and renovate homes. Closely followed by the artists and gays who want 'space'. Then the anglos start trickling in, and once enough anglos then the pseudosuburbanites come in and complain about the long term residents and businesses that aren't Crate and barrell.

[Malvie]

Originally Posted by Oildog

Thats seems to be the process. A couple pioneers go into bad areas and renovate homes. Closely followed by the artists and gays who want 'space'. Then the anglos start trickling in, and once enough anglos then the pseudosuburbanites come in and complain about the long term residents and businesses that aren't Crate and barrell.

I was sitting in a restaurant in Montrose the other day and overheard two young ladies at another table (the tables were on top of each other) talking. One said, "Yah, I really like it here!" (modified Valley Girl accent) "...Except there are so many gays! Why don't they just go somewhere else."

In Montrose.

[modster]

I think most of the generalizations about gentrification are true on here.

One of the important components is the architectural element. Very few areas are 100% interesting houses. The more compelling ones get fixed up first, then as the area improves and the audience broadens, the more mundane house get picked up too, spreading the gentrification around.

I have a front row seat on this in Glenbrook. Conventional wisdom in real estate is you don't want the most expensive house in the neighborhood yet the most expensive over-the-top houses are the easiest to sell down there. The ones that are far better values on paper will sit while something that you can't get to appraise for the sales price has people fighting over it.

Right now I have some good ones that aren't moving, yet one priced in the mid $300's, ( a lot for the area ) has people fighting over it. I have told any and all that there is apt to be a $35 - $50,000 shortfall between sales price and bank appraisal. You will have to pay the difference in cash on top of your normal down payment. If you don't want to, I understand & thank you very much for your time, have a nice day. Despite this it is under contract to a bank VP & his partner that are moving from Vassar Blvd. There is an Architect and his family that came in too late and are putting in a back up contract, moving from Braes Heights. Plus there is an attorney that is willing to pay full price but has to sell his house in Norhill first.

I have seen this before. The top end houses draw people into an area because they are only willing to go there if it is the right house. You see this happening in Eastwood, and even Westbury, where the nicer houses in Parkwest and the more interesting ranches and mods got snapped up and renovated first. Then the flippers came in and picked up the more mundane one, decked them out, and people who have a low tolerance for redoing a house snap them up, and things just keep snow balling.

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by usc619

1. Chula Vista

2. City Heights

3 Spring Valley

4. Oceanside

are all heavily populated with minorities ( so-called "ghetto") and has been around for ages..... guess what? not much white flight and the roads, buildings, and apts. are still in better condition than most of Katy....I guess we'll blame that on the weather next? Katy does have a lower crime rate (psst. for now)

This post makes no sense. You're calling it a ghetto because its filled with minorities, but there is no much white flight?

You named WHOLE cities, I'm talking about the ghetto areas of those cities that you say you've been to that Katy looks worse than. I'm not seeing it at all. There are a few sections of Katy that may not look too desirable, but for the most part, Katy is really nice.

[AK123]

Originally Posted by randian

Because nothing says walkable like hot, sticky, and mosquito-infested swamp. Which Houston is/was. Like you're going to walk anywhere in the heat and humidity

That's so exaggerated. And for you to say that on a day like today (or yesterday) is even more funny. You're going to tell me you wouldn't enjoy walking around outside today? Or most of the year in Houston except maybe the 3-4 worst months during summer? And the swamp thing is getting really tired... Chicago and DC were built on swamp land too.

Originally Posted by Malvie

The only thing is, picking the area right is the most important thing. I have a friend who does that very thing. He "cases" a city for ages while he's finishing his last project (usually in another city).

I'd be interested in what your friend (and others like him) think about specific areas of Houston for this...

[Malvie]

Originally Posted by AK123

I'd be interested in what your friend (and others like him) think about specific areas of Houston for this...

He doesn't like Houston (or Dallas or Denver or San Deigo or Phoenix or LA). He likes DC, New Orleans, Boston, Philadelphia, et al. Old places in the east. He'd probably like San Antonio, but he doesn't care for Texas in general.

And he studies for about 2 years (while he's doing his current project) before he picks his next. By the time he's through studying an area, he knows it forwards, backwards, and sideways.

[theSUBlime]

Originally Posted by Oildog

Thats seems to be the process. A couple pioneers go into bad areas and renovate homes. Closely followed by the artists and gays who want 'space'. Then the anglos start trickling in, and once enough anglos then the pseudosuburbanites come in and complain about the long term residents and businesses that aren't Crate and barrell.

Exactamundo...it's FREAKIN' annoying. And then off they go wanting to be all super-pristine pseudo city like Dallas. If you've noticed, all the people bringing up great cities as models for the city of Houston fail to realize that they tend to avoid building places that are overly manufactured, and things tend to happen more organically in those cities and unfortunately Houston missed the historic boat on that one.