Do people from Idaho really hate Californians? (Boise: job market, purchase)

[Sagle Sam]

Originally Posted by Cnynrat

I think a lot of the angst we are seeing is due to the stresses imposed on a place due to population growth. As we've already discussed, that brings all sorts of changes to a place, many of which are not positive.

Idaho is not alone in this. Since 1980 there has been a significant population shift to the west. If you look at the 10 "western" states (Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, and Washington), all but Montana have grown faster than the United States overall since 1980. The biggest change was in Nevada, where the population is up 355% compared to 142% in the nation overall. Idaho is actually more or less middle of the pack with growth since 1980 of 173%, which puts it behind not only Nevada, but Arizona, Colorado and Utah as well.

If you look at growth since 2000 it has slowed across most of the west, but is still outpacing overall growth in the U.S.. Idaho moves up one spot to 4th if you look at growth since 2000, but it only just edges out Colorado at 126% vs. 125%.

Montana continues to be the only state in the group that is growing slower than the country as a whole. Maybe there is something to that 'Last Best Place' stuff after all.

Anyway, back to the topic of the thread, I think the growth creates stress. Long time residents tend to focus that on the biggest target, which in this case looks like Californians.

Just the early morning ramblings of someone who tends to be obsessed with data ...

Dave

I agree, which is exactly the reason why we who already live here in Idaho should all join together and attempt to slow the rate of this growth, even if it means perpetuating and/or exaggerating certain stigmas associated with this place.

I often feel as others do, that some on here with financial (real estate and other) motives work against my tactics in attempt to ratchet up the flood gates to benefit their bank accounts, by glossing over some realities and trying to cast those like me as extreme and in a negative light.

[VandalsLOL]

Cnyn,

I think you're spot on. And when you go beyond the numbers and look to see which of these fast growing places has actually improved its quality of life and affordability, or more importantly, where that tipping point during the growth was.. you'll understand where the stress and frustration comes from.

It's not an uncommon thing; likely it's happened all over the world and it will continue to happen. It's a bit more than just saying "things change, deal with it" because this "change" involves displacement, disenfranchisement, and a number of other fracturing consequences. It's not unlike the famous "paved paradise and put up a parking lot" song lyric.

The frustration also stems from the helplessness involved. If you read the sentiments in this very thread, most coming here are of the attitude that "I'm coming whether you like it or not" and they don't blink twice about how this affects residents already here. It reeks of a "I'm going to get mine, and I don't care about the larger picture" attitude. At the same time, one could rightfully say that residents already here have the attitude that "I already have mine, I don't want anyone else to mess that up." This is especially ironic when you consider the very same thing has happened in California with immigration from Mexico. Who can blame them for wanting to escape Mexico and come to the US, just like some of you say, who can blame Californians for wanting to escape Cali and come to Idaho.

But if change and growth are inevitable, so is the conflict, tension, and increasing crime, congestion, expense, and government regulation that necessarily follow. It's not if, but when.

As an aside, here's a trivial, unimportant, but real life example of what someone can expect. Spending the weekend in McCall is a favorite past-time for people in the Boise area. It is commonly marketed as a major attraction to living here. But what isn't said is that it is virtually impossible to get up there and back on the summer weekends. I raft so I am in the area most weekends. The traffic back to Boise on Sunday afternoon to the evening is more often than not a gridlock standstill. The last three weekends have had fires or traffic accidents block Highway 55 for hours. What is typically about a 2 hour drive becomes a 4-6 hour drive, unless you leave early Sunday morning or late Sunday night.

Now, many will say "big deal, welcome to live here in California." But the point is... isn't that exactly one of the reasons you are leaving California??? Idaho is much different than CA; it does not have the infrastructure to handle the congestion and crowding, and Idaho will likely never fund making those improvements. And beyond the drive to McCall, you'll start to see that crowding EVERYWHERE you go, no matter where you go.

While Idaho has wide open spaces, it is important to remember that over 60% of the state is public lands and undevelopable... and when you start looking at the areas that are developable, there isn't much left to do anything with, especially near and around the metro areas.

Just food for thought, since we're talking about it.

[VandalsLOL]

Originally Posted by Sagle Sam

I agree, which is exactly the reason why we who already live here in Idaho should all join together and attempt to slow the rate of this growth, even if it means perpetuating and/or exaggerating certain stigmas associated with this place.

I often feel as others do, that some on here with financial (real estate and other) motives work against my tactics in attempt to ratchet up the flood gates to benefit their bank accounts, by glossing over some realities and trying to cast those like me as extreme and in a negative light.

How can you rightly say that, being here for the time you have been?

While you might be right on in sentiment and have opinions that mirror most Idaho residents... the thing is, YOU don't get to say that.

[Sagle Sam]

Originally Posted by VandalsLOL

How can you rightly say that, being here for the time you have been?

While you might be right on in sentiment and have opinions that mirror most Idaho residents... the thing is, YOU don't get to say that.

I agree with your perspective 100%, and if I'd have been here as long as you I would probably feel the same way. However, I haven't but I DID make it here. When is the tenure cut-off point according to VandalsLOL assuming you determine the gold standard? Mine is those who are here to stay and are assimilating vs. those who aren't...yet!

If you and others could kick me back out, I think there's a decent chance you would, and I wouldn't necessarily blame you. However, those of us who are here can still take efforts to curtail/slow the pace of growth from those who still might want to relocate here from elsewhere.

In a way, if I were native, I'd kind of hate the internet in a way as it is being responsible for bringing all of the Californians and even the likes of me here.

[VandalsLOL]

I don't get to pick a cut-off point, and I never thought I did.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Sagle Sam

With reports like yours, I'll have to remind everyone about North Idaho's almost unbearable winters, bigoted inbred white people (almost 100% of the population), and no jobs except for retail and fast food. Also, we are extremely conservative and gun-loving and are known to send Californians who have relocated here headed out of the state in tears and with their tails between their legs .

thanks for the write up, now I want to move there

signed lifted-truck, gun toting, inbred neck!

[Sagle Sam]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

thanks for the write up, now I want to move there

signed lifted-truck, gun toting, inbred neck!

With Confederate Flag even!

[Cnynrat]

Vandals,

Lots of good points.

I've lived in CA since the late '70's and have seen firsthand how population growth degrades the quality of life. It used to be that if I wanted a weekend getaway to the Sierras to go fishing/skiing/backpacking it was a relatively easy thing. Try to get out of work a couple hours early to beat the worst of the traffic headed out of town and you were good to go. Now I won't even attempt to get out of town on a Friday afternoon, there is just way too much traffic. You can expect a similar experience coming back into town on Sundays.

I've posted here before that back in the '70's and '80's there was a strong sentiment in California that we didn't want any more people moving here. Bumper stickers that read "Welcome to California, Now Go Home" were popular. I suspect it's all not too dissimilar to the attitude of some in Idaho, and I probably other places in the west as well. It's also very understandable since nobody wants to see those things happen to their home.

I think growth really puts stresses on recreational resources, and those are often a big draw to people wanting to move to the west. So it's ironic that people will come and, in a way, kill the very things that drew them here. All the same things have played out here in California in the Sierras, and especially in the local mountains surrounding LA. I think Edward Abbey wrote about that phenomena 40+ years ago.

So I agree, the growth often degrades quality of life, and more of it is probably coming throughout the west. It's not obvious to me that there is much any one person can do about it though.

Bringing it down to an individual perspective, I can tell you that despite the growth that has already happened, the parts of Idaho I am familiar with (north Idaho primarily) are still decades behind California in terms of the impact that's been felt. So comparatively, there is a big advantage to move there if you are looking for open spaces, a slower pace of life, and ready access to prime outdoor recreational opportunities. Until that comparative advantage shrinks, people will still come.

One difference between Idaho and California is there aren't the same economic opportunities that California has/had, especially up north. Obviously that's a mixed blessing, as I'm sure there are many that would appreciate better career opportunities. That in itself is a dangerous edge to walk though, since if more opportunities were created that would only lead to even more growth.

If it makes everyone feel a little better, we bought our house in Sagle from another Californian. He had bought up there planning to move. I think in the 6 years they owned the house they may have lived there for 1 or 2 years. Apparently there were a number of reasons why they never moved permanently, among them the north Idaho winters didn't agree with his wife. So anyway, maybe you can think of us as not really adding to the net population of Idaho, but just replacing one ex-Californian with another.

Dave

[VandalsLOL]

Good points.

I am pretty confident that, overall, the economic opportunities will never be here like they will be in just about every other state near us. We are just too isolated and limited in population, education, infrastructure, and even natural resources (oil, gas, etc.) to really attract large numbers. People moving to Idaho will have to bring their money with them or do with less.

[Syringaloid]

Several agencies predict Idaho and especially the Boise area to have a high amount of growth (as we've seen for years) well into the future. COMPASS projects more than 1 Million in the Boise metro by 2040 which is still a ways away. I agree 1 Million in a metro is a lot, look at SLC which now has more than a million in its metro and imo that area is one big nasty mess but part of that is most of Utah's population lives along the Wasatch corridor/I-15. Idaho is more spread out.

The projected job growth for Boise and Idaho means job growth, opportunity, etc. A shift in local and state leaders over time will be a positive for the area.

Of the states that surround us, Montana and Wyoming will have less opportunity because their population is smaller than Idaho's. I can't imagine Nevada having much more opportunity except for more hotels (and casino's) to land a job at.

Oregon and Portland can be a conundrum, Portland for instance is a tough place to land a good job because everyone wants to live there and the job market is crowded and fierce, much like Boise, and people in Portland (as well as SLC) complain the jobs don't pay enough. Boise has grown so much since I've lived here, it's insane.