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Yeah, but it really makes no sense to hate on the people who are simply taking advantage of an opportunity that is presented to them. Don't tell me if you were dirt poor in an impoverished 3rd world country and had the opportunity to sneak into another country, get fake docs and work for good wages that you wouldn't do it. Between starving and breaking US immigration law I think almost any reasonable person would choose the latter.
If you want the issue to be resolved you have to place blame on the current systems in place which allow this behavior to happen in massive amounts.
Your analagy doesn't cut it as most Mexicans are not starving in Mexico. It is just that they can make more money here and the lure of benefits is what brings them in. Regardless, I personally would not sneak into another country for a better life while imposing a less quality of life for the citizens of that country. You see they can't get a better life here without making ours a lot tougher. I would not steal someone else's I.D. nor make up a fake one either because it is against the law and effects others negatively. You assume a lot about the morals of other people.
By the way, "hate" has nothing to do with the desire to have our immigration laws respected and enforced.
It is a threefold blame going on in the system... our government's ineptness, the greedy employers and the illegals themselves.
Yeah, but it really makes no sense to hate on the people who are simply taking advantage of an opportunity that is presented to them. Don't tell me if you were dirt poor in an impoverished 3rd world country and had the opportunity to sneak into another country, get fake docs and work for good wages that you wouldn't do it. Between starving and breaking US immigration law I think almost any reasonable person would choose the latter.
If you want the issue to be resolved you have to place blame on the current systems in place which allow this behavior to happen in massive amounts.
Here we go again - the poor widdle illegals simply have no CHOICE........
Your analagy doesn't cut it as most Mexicans are not starving in Mexico. It is just that they can make more money here and the lure of benefits is what brings them in. Regardless, I personally would not sneak into another country for a better life while imposing a less quality of life for the citizens of that country. You see they can't get a better life here without making ours a lot tougher. I would not steal someone else's I.D. nor make up a fake one either because it is against the law and effects others negatively. You assume a lot about the morals of other people.
By the way, "hate" has nothing to do with the desire to have our immigration laws respected and enforced.
It is a threefold blame going on in the system... our government's ineptness, the greedy employers and the illegals themselves.
I appreciate you going above and beyond to defend your morals but to be fair you've never been forced into a situation where you're stuck living in a country with a failed economy. Let's not kid ourselves, Mexico isn't the worst place in the world to live but it's plenty messed up there.
Originally posted by Slig: I am in favor of expanding legal immigration because I am confident it would result in a decrease in illegal immigration. I am also in favor for pushing American youths to become knowledgeable in multiple languages, especially Spanish, Chinese and Arabic as this clearly help create a more educated and linguistically flexible populace. I see this as a positive thing, not a negative thing.
You want legal immigration expanded without considering if we have jobs for more immigrants and without denying jobs to Americans at a fair wage? How about our population growth and the demands it puts on our resources and social infrastrutures? How about assimilation and the dilution of our culture and identity?
How would expanding legal immigration decrease illegal immigration? You are aware that there are more potential immigrants all over the world than we can't accomodate, don't you? Do you actually think that the surplus ones we can't accomodate won't still try to come here illegally?
What reason would Americans have to learn several languages? Shouldn't immigrants assimilate to us rather than the other way around? If one chooses to learn another language that is up to them but otherwise it is useless to do so because unless you use it you lose it. There are very few jobs where knowing any other language than English is necessary unless of course it is to accomodate illegal aliens. Who in their right mind would want to do it for that reason?
Last edited by chicagonut; 10-12-2010 at 01:13 PM..
You want legal immigration expanded without considering if we have jobs for more immigrants and without denying jobs to Americans at a fair wage? How about our population growth and the demands it puts on our resources and social infrastrutures? How about assimilation and the dilution of our culture and identity?
How would expanding legal immigration decrease illegal immigration? You are aware that there are more potential immigrants all over the world than we can accomodate, don't you? Do you actually think that the surplus ones we can't accomodate won't still try to come here illegally?
What reason would Americans have to learn several languages? Shouldn't immigrants assimilate to us rather than the other way around? If one chooses to learn another language that is up to them but otherwise it is useless to do so because unless you use it you lose it. There are very few jobs where knowing any other language than English is necessary unless of course it is to accomodate illegal aliens. Who in their right mind would want to do it for that reason?
Exactly - if you immigrate to another country a rational person would assume they need to learn the MAIN language spoken in said country.
Exactly - if you immigrate to another country a rational person would assume they need to learn the MAIN language spoken in said country.
Illegal immigration simply allows Countries with large populations of poor to keep on having large populations of poor as they know they can dump them here. When do these Countries become responsible for their Citizens? How about these Govts start tossing around some birth control for goodness sake.
Population control would solve most of these Countries issues.
I'm always amazed by how many illegals from many far flung countries manage to GET to Mexico to cross over the land border into USA.
Just as an aside - it's interesting that Australia refuses to recognise any illegals' plea for "asylum" or "refugee" status if they have set foot in ANOTHER country on their journey to Australia from wherever they hail from. The reasoning is they could have asked THAT country for "asylum" - too bad the USA doesn't see it that way.
You want legal immigration expanded without considering if we have jobs for more immigrants and without denying jobs to Americans at a fair wage? How about our population growth and the demands it puts on our resources and social infrastrutures?
Yeah, we've discussed all of this before and I think you know that my opinion differs from yours on these fronts. Regarding jobs, the only Americans that need to worry about losing their jobs out to uneducated and unskilled immigrants are those Americans working low-skilled and jobs which don't require an education. With our systems in place, I don't have alot of remorse for Americans which fit into this category...they have all the opportunity in the world to get an education or learn a skilled trade.
If resources and infrastructures are planned right they aren't negatively affected by population growth. In my neighborhood, an influx in immigration revived the area. I'm thankful because had it not been for Latino, East African and Middle Eastern immigrants moving in my neighborhood would still be a haven for drugs and prostitution that plagued it back in the 80's and 90's. It's now a thriving and vibrant area. I understand that immigration has lead to some issues in some of the southern states, and I do take issue with the rampant fraud and abuse of our healthcare system, etc. I find that to be a seperate issue though. If those systems were cleaned out and corrected and everyone had to be documented and could be held accountable alot of those issues wouldn't exist.
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How would expanding legal immigration decrease illegal immigration?
Well, because those illegal immigrants would be going through the legal process. Many people forget that the majority of the people who are immigrating illegally are doing so because outside of marrying an American citizen it is physically impossible for them to legally immigrate here. Many of these people would go through the legal process if they could.
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How about assimilation and the dilution of our culture and identity?
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What reason would Americans have to learn several languages? Shouldn't immigrants assimilate to us rather than the other way around? If one chooses to learn another language that is up to them but otherwise it is useless to do so because unless you use it you lose it. There are very few jobs where knowing any other language than English is necessary unless of course it is to accomodate illegal aliens. Who in their right mind would want to do it for that reason?
It's a shame that you don't see the value in learning additional languages and about other cultures.
Yeah, we've discussed all of this before and I think you know that my opinion differs from yours on these fronts. Regarding jobs, the only Americans that need to worry about losing their jobs out to uneducated and unskilled immigrants are those Americans working low-skilled and jobs which don't require an education. With our systems in place, I don't have alot of remorse for Americans which fit into this category...they have all the opportunity in the world to get an education or learn a skilled trade.
If resources and infrastructures are planned right they aren't negatively affected by population growth. In my neighborhood, an influx in immigration revived the area. I'm thankful because had it not been for Latino, East African and Middle Eastern immigrants moving in my neighborhood would still be a haven for drugs and prostitution that plagued it back in the 80's and 90's. It's now a thriving and vibrant area. I understand that immigration has lead to some issues in some of the southern states, and I do take issue with the rampant fraud and abuse of our healthcare system, etc. I find that to be a seperate issue though. If those systems were cleaned out and corrected and everyone had to be documented and could be held accountable alot of those issues wouldn't exist.
Well, because those illegal immigrants would be going through the legal process. Many people forget that the majority of the people who are immigrating illegally are doing so because outside of marrying an American citizen it is physically impossible for them to legally immigrate here. Many of these people would go through the legal process if they could.
It's a shame that you don't see the value in learning additional languages and about other cultures.
I can learn about other cultures without having to learn their language. We already have many cultures living among us. I can also travel abroad. It is ridiculous to learn languages you will hardly ever use. How many languages would you expect Americans to learn and again for what reason?
You failed to answer my question as to how increasing our legal immigration quotas would stop illegal immigration when plainly there are millions of potential immigrants across the world that we wouldn't be able to accomodate through the legal process.
I find it sad that you think that jobs such as construction should be beneath Americans to do. Many Americans like blue collar work and aren't cut out for a white collar job. Many of those jobs use to pay a liveable wage until the illegals came and took them. Many of our youth used to be able to work in restaurants, etc. for spending money and that is no longer available to them either. Why so little concern for our American workforce? Why aren't you pushing for the homelands of these millions of poor immgrants to create an economy whereby they would want to remain in their homelands instead?
I can learn about other cultures without having to learn their language. We already have many cultures living among us. I can also travel abroad. It is ridiculous to learn languages you will hardly ever use. How many languages would you expect Americans to learn and again for what reason?
You failed to answer my question as to how increasing our legal immigration quotas would stop illegal immigration when plainly there are millions of potential immigrants across the world that we wouldn't be able to accomodate through the legal process.
I find it sad that you think that jobs such as construction should be beneath Americans to do. Many Americans like blue collar work and aren't cut out for a white collar job. Many of those jobs use to pay a liveable wage until the illegals came and took them. Many of our youth used to be able to work in restaurants, etc. for spending money and that is no longer available to them either. Why so little concern for our American workforce? Why aren't you pushing for the homelands of these millions of poor immgrants to create an economy whereby they would want to remain in their homelands instead?
Most of those jobs were taken by youths. Some of the best jobs that mixed with school were jobs that Illegals have turned into careers. Scab labor will turn any job into a low paying one.
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