Should current ILLEGAL Immigrants ever get US Citizenship? (middle east, move, Australia)
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Well, since the poll is now closed I'll post my vote here...
A loud and resounding...NO!
But the reality is, in the time the topic has been up (coming on four years), there has been some illegal aliens that have transitioned to U.S. citizens...
But the reality is, in the time the topic has been up (coming on four years), there has been some illegal aliens that have transitioned to U.S. citizens...
And how did they accomplish that? Did they pay the required fees and go through the mental and health evaluations? Did they pass the criminal background checks and have the amount of money required in the bank? If they did accomplish all this, where did the money come from in the first place? Through ILLEGAL gains by working under the table? They should have been HEAVILY fined and had certain restrictions placed on them as a punishment for breaking the laws in the first place.
What can you do for us: NOT what we can do for you.
Get in line and follow our rules.
If we change "our rules" about immigration I except everyone here support them with the same vigor they support the current ones. After all, rules are never stagnant and do and have changed before.
I think there isn't one right or wrong answer. Like most things, it depends. Some are more valuable to us than their American counterparts, others should be jailed, and most fall somewhere in between.
I gave my comment quoting the context of your post, having a spouse and three stepchildren that are Mexican Nationals...
My wife is thai and a legal immigrant now a US citizen. This doesn't make me feel we should legalize any Thai's who are here illegally. Nor does it make me feel that we owe Thai people any special consideration. We have a process that allows more legal immigration to our country than all others combined. We owe nothing to any other country or its citizens.
And how did they accomplish that? Did they pay the required fees and go through the mental and health evaluations? Did they pass the criminal background checks and have the amount of money required in the bank? If they did accomplish all this, where did the money come from in the first place? Through ILLEGAL gains by working under the table? They should have been HEAVILY fined and had certain restrictions placed on them as a punishment for breaking the laws in the first place.
"They" did it primarily through an I-601 waiver, being married to a U.S. citizen. All of the legal immigration criteria has to be passed after the waiver is successful, so "they" have gone through all of the same requirements. Working without authorization actually tends to be the first thing forgiven during the process, it is more concerned with the number and methods of entry into the United States previously.
The I-601 does have a fee, as well as another petition that is sometimes required, but otherwise it would have just been the amounts for residency and later naturalization...
My wife is thai and a legal immigrant now a US citizen. This doesn't make me feel we should legalize any Thai's who are here illegally. Nor does it make me feel that we owe Thai people any special consideration. We have a process that allows more legal immigration to our country than all others combined. We owe nothing to any other country or its citizens.
I saw a comment that made sweeping generalizations about Mexican Nationals, and did not differentiate between illegal aliens or legal immigrants, or with a classification of illegal immigrants from any country:
"...Americans have been remarkably generous to Mexican nationals. We've allowed millions to come here legally. What most of us do not want to do is allow ALL Mexicans no matter how low skilled to come here. We don't need them or want their overbreeding high school drop outs who can't be bothered to learn English. They are a huge burden on Americans. We certainly don't want their offspring. They have a nation. Let them go back to it..."
My wife is thai and a legal immigrant now a US citizen. This doesn't make me feel we should legalize any Thai's who are here illegally. Nor does it make me feel that we owe Thai people any special consideration. We have a process that allows more legal immigration to our country than all others combined. We owe nothing to any other country or its citizens.
Great post. No one else gets special treatment, especially not legal immigrants.
I saw a comment that made sweeping generalizations about Mexican Nationals, and did not differentiate between illegal aliens or legal immigrants, or with a classification of illegal immigrants from any country:
..
I'm afraid I'd have to vote for the concept of their being little difference between illegal and legal immigrants, at least among Mexican nationals. At this point, their numbers are so great that they form a sort of protected class as political clout is gained.
In the final analysis, what really matters is how many people get in and what is their nature. The law attempts to channel and limit that flow, and in the case of Mexicans + people from Central America, appears to be of little value. What should occur is that the reality on the ground should match what turns out to be the highest benefit for existing US citizens. Unless you are in favor of wholesale transfer of Latino working class culture and increased population pressure generally, I can't say that that benefit is being favored.
It's a pity that immigration hasn't been a way to bring in people from all over the world, especially those that individually bring something special. It makes for an interesting spice to add to the national stew. Instead, due to an unavoidable reality of geography, the net result will end up being merely the movement of national and cultural borders.
I think that's what the argument is really all about in a nutshell. It's not really a racial one, there's not a dime's worth of difference between the various flavors of humans, not enough evolutionary time yet, but a cultural one. The results so far have been obvious and you can expect the rapid change to continue.
I'm afraid I'd have to vote for the concept of their being little difference between illegal and legal immigrants, at least among Mexican nationals. At this point, their numbers are so great that they form a sort of protected class as political clout is gained.
In the final analysis, what really matters is how many people get in and what is their nature. The law attempts to channel and limit that flow, and in the case of Mexicans + people from Central America, appears to be of little value. What should occur is that the reality on the ground should match what turns out to be the highest benefit for existing US citizens. Unless you are in favor of wholesale transfer of Latino working class culture and increased population pressure generally, I can't say that that benefit is being favored.
It's a pity that immigration hasn't been a way to bring in people from all over the world, especially those that individually bring something special. It makes for an interesting spice to add to the national stew. Instead, due to an unavoidable reality of geography, the net result will end up being merely the movement of national and cultural borders.
I think that's what the argument is really all about in a nutshell. It's not really a racial one, there's not a dime's worth of difference between the various flavors of humans, not enough evolutionary time yet, but a cultural one. The results so far have been obvious and you can expect the rapid change to continue.
Excellent post!
You are exactly right. What is now occurring at a rapid pace is the literal movement of the border through massive illegal immigration and anchor babies, Mexico is extending its borders well into the United States. What we have to ask ourselves is what effect does this have on the U. S. in the long run? How will transforming this nation into a replica of Mexico benefit the average American citizen.
You will never get an answer from the pros to this question. They want to remain in complete denial of the logical consequences to open borders with Mexico/Latin America. It has very little to do with "race" and everything to do with culture and the values and mindset that culture brings with it (assuming that with the overwhelming numbers from one ethnic group there is little pressure or necessity or will to assimilate into American cultural mindset/values).
This is why the pros keep bringing up the immigration waves of the past: "see that worked out so this will be the same." WRONG! In the past there was no pandering to the newcomers and plenty of pressure for them to assimilate into the existing American culture. Now we accommodate the culture and language of newcomers and are called "racist" if we do not.
Also, when the numbers of immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe reached critical mass and assimilation seemed to be slowing down, the nation called a moratorium on immigration from these areas which enabled the new immigrants and their children to assimilate. THAT is why "everything worked out" with that wave. Had immigration from Southern and Eastern Europe continued unabated the way immigration from South of the border has continued, they would also have continued to resist assimilation; it's just human nature.
But you'll never get these pros to admit this because then their house of cards falls apart.
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