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It's not immigrants that we are discussing in this sub-forum, it's illegal immigrants. That is why I find the first post of this thread to be out-of-place.
I was raised next to the town in question, which directly borders my hometown. I also currently live back in my hometown. Historically, the town in question has always been known in this area as a haven for illegal immigrants. It is still known locally as a haven for them. Moorpark is also bordered by Somis and Bardsdale, two very small agriculture towns which rely heavily on illegal immigrant labor from Moorpark.
Some on here are declaring that Moorpark has only a 34% Hispanic population. First, let me remind you that some people of Hispanic descent do list themselves as "caucasian" on the census and other forms., just as do some half-black/half-white Americans. I even have Native American ancestors and relatives who listed themselves as mulato, white or black, dependng on their own whims at the time. Also let me remind you of a fact that many of us who want illegal immigration stopped have also stated, and that is this...that illegal immigrant population counts vary greatly. Some experts say there are "only" 12 million illegal Hispanic immigrants, while other experts state that there are over 25 million illegals in the United States. Other experts come up with counts that are both higher and lower than these numbers. Many illegal immigrants did NOT include themselves on the last census. So, you may have pulled up a statistic of only 34%, but we both know, from previous arguments in these forums, that this number is probably inaccurate. Had I come on here and posted about the people I met in a negative light, and a pro-illegal had thrown that 34% figure at me, you would have claimed that the firgure was probably wrong because we do not have an accurate count of all the illegal immigrants in this country.
I am still in favor of stopping illegal immigration, and I am still in favor of deportation. However, I now believe that certain factors need to be looked at first, and deportation needs to be done on a case-by-case basis. I also believe that those allowed to stay need to pay a fine, as anyone else would, and also submit the original fees which would have been expected had they applied for immigration in the proper manner. But, they need to be able to show that they have actually supported themselves without government aid and are truly a benefit to their community instead of a detriment. I've gone out of my way to meet some of these people and found the experience an eye-opening and pleasant one.
Yes, illegal immigration is a HUGE problem, costing the United States about $113 Billion annually. Unemployment is still a major problem for Americans. The huge insurance company my brother works for just closed down one of their major offices, are planning even MORE layoffs, but have also turned around and started hiring employees through insourcing, ie...bringing in people from India and Pakistan, to replace the American workers they are laying off. This is also a problem. American workers are not just losing jobs to illegal immigrants. Our government is allowing in LEGAL immigrants for the express purpose of replacing American workers in the workforce.
We have other problems besides illegal immigrants. Right now I am seeing outsourcing and insourcing as a bigger threat to our jobs.
When I believe something I've always taken a pretty hard, solid stance on it, but I have also always been willing to re-examine my stance and see if my belief still holds up under personal scrutiny. I do not like to be influenced by the beliefs of others, whether it be of a political, religious or personal nature. I prefer to seek the answers for myself and then decide where I stand. A change or alteration in my stance does not mean that I now totally disagree with, dislike or disrespect those who maintain a stance which I formerly held. It means that I have grown personally through self-evaluation, making me a better person inside and giving me a sense of internal peace which I need to survive in these hard times. Being hateful and pointing the finger of blame is not going to help me to gain employment, nor will it help me to sleep better at night. Putting aside such negative behaviors and thoughts is the healthier road for me, so that I can focus on what I need to do to survive. The people I met last week were genuine and willing to be kind and friendly to a complete stranger who, for all they knew, came to find out where they lived so they could be reported to the authorities. I have no doubts that at the very least the wife is here illegally. I have to ask myself that if the shoe had been on the other foot and I had seen them wandering around my area with a camera, would I have been as friendly and welcoming? I'm ashamed to admit that I probably would not have been, and my parents, believe it or not, raised me to be better and kinder than I would have behaved.
Cyanna, how did you and your sister determine the immigration status of the residents? Or, did you “assume” they are illegal simply because they’re Hispanic? In any case, even if they are illegal aliens, a “nice” demeanor does not absolve one of guilt, or justify the violation of our laws. Nor should legal status be obtained on the basis of one’s ability to maintain a pristine lawn.
This is an interesting thread. The same people who would viciously vilify an anti-illegal for daring to assume a group are illegal solely on the basis of ethnicity or demeanor, are quick to extol you for doing exactly that. The difference being, you are attributing positive behavior to illegal aliens, so obviously, that’s okay. Had you taken pictures of a crime-infested, graffiti-filled barrio and made an identical claim, you would be called every name, but a child of God.
Funny, but not one pro-illegal has asked you to prove the authenticity of your photos, to cite the demographics, or to explain your method for determining the illegal status of the residents of this picturesque town. Call me cynical, but I believe there is much more to your “sudden” change of heart than meets the eye.
I have to run, but perhaps you will share your methodology to assist us in differentiating between Hispanic legal immigrants and Hispanic illegal aliens.
Growing up in Southern California, as well as having been employed in a garment factory where illegals were a large part of the workforce, helps one to fairly accurately tell by observation who is here illegally. Its in their general demeanor and how they behave when approached. The women in particular give some pretty strong clues in their dress and how they will put their head down when walking past. Not 100% accurate but pretty damn close.
Regarding the photos, they are mine, I took them, and they are currently listed for sale on my two websites, as well as on my professional seller's account. They contain my watermark and copyright. These photos were taken in the neighborhood behind High Street in Moorpark. Tomorrow my sister and I will be taking matted and framed copies to the man and his wife.
Sudden change of heart? Those who know me well personally are aware of my propensity for self-evaluation, especially when I am becoming so engrossed in a belief that I can't think straight because of it. I have never had a problem with admitting when I have been wrong or too extreme over a belief or stance. What you think or believe of my "sudden" change of heart means nothing to me. I don't care if it pleases or displeases you. What I care about is the person I am and the person I want to be. Maybe the traumas I've suffered in life have taught me that sometimes I need to step back in order to deal with the issue differently before I end up going over the edge. I've survived because I am strong, and it often takes a strong person to be able to say "I was wrong."
Good on you Cyanna. Sorry to hear about the closing down of your brother's work place; unfortunately thats what most firms are doing nowadays. You raised a realistic and basic point - fending off illegal immigrants, whether in masses or not, will not necessarily bring back jobs to the American workers. Other than outsourcing or moving overseas the company can, as you have clearly pointed out, insource its work - and guess what for probably much lower wages. Bottomline - Either way you won't get the jobs back unless you can prove you are better and are worth the wage. That's how it is in any Western country nowadays, you just have to deal with it. But I guess it's alright if the country grants these chinese and indians work permits at extremely low wages because the law is being enforced and they won't be illegals right? BS!! Law enforcement - what a buzzword nowadays!
Myth no. 2 - Some have mentioned that taxes would be less through immigration law enforcement (ignoring there are many anglos that milk the system, many RICH THAT EVADE TAXES etc) because you no longer have to support them. Wake up call - You think expenditure cuts are enough to pay the great amount of debt the country accumulated? It is most likely that tax rates would remain as they are but NOT fall, unless you plan on accumulating more debt. Hope you don't believe the crap of politicians promising to slash taxes on capital gains, income etc - especially with such a debt looming over.
Good on you Cyanna. Sorry to hear about the closing down of your brother's work place; unfortunately thats what most firms are doing nowadays. You raised a realistic and basic point - fending off illegal immigrants, whether in masses or not, will not necessarily bring back jobs to the American workers. Other than outsourcing or moving overseas the company can, as you have clearly pointed out, insource its work - and guess what for probably much lower wages. Bottomline - Either way you won't get the jobs back unless you can prove you are better and are worth the wage. That's how it is in any Western country nowadays, you just have to deal with it. But I guess it's alright if the country grants these chinese and indians work permits at extremely low wages because the law is being enforced and they won't be illegals right? BS!! Law enforcement - what a buzzword nowadays!
Myth no. 2 - Some have mentioned that taxes would be less through immigration law enforcement (ignoring there are many anglos that milk the system, many RICH THAT EVADE TAXES etc) because you no longer have to support them. Wake up call - You think expenditure cuts are enough to pay the great amount of debt the country accumulated? It is most likely that tax rates would remain as they are but NOT fall, unless you plan on accumulating more debt. Hope you don't believe the crap of politicians promising to slash taxes on capital gains, income etc - especially with such a debt looming over.
Correct the only way to resolve the debt issue is to learn to live within our means. That means huge spending cuts. raising taxes may help to prolong the agony but it does not address the fact that our gov is hemorrhaging cash.
I think the point many of us make isn't about the national dept but at state and local levels.
Growing up in Southern California, as well as having been employed in a garment factory where illegals were a large part of the workforce, helps one to fairly accurately tell by observation who is here illegally. Its in their general demeanor and how they behave when approached. The women in particular give some pretty strong clues in their dress and how they will put their head down when walking past. Not 100% accurate but pretty damn close.
Regarding the photos, they are mine, I took them, and they are currently listed for sale on my two websites, as well as on my professional seller's account. They contain my watermark and copyright. These photos were taken in the neighborhood behind High Street in Moorpark. Tomorrow my sister and I will be taking matted and framed copies to the man and his wife.
Sudden change of heart? Those who know me well personally are aware of my propensity for self-evaluation, especially when I am becoming so engrossed in a belief that I can't think straight because of it. I have never had a problem with admitting when I have been wrong or too extreme over a belief or stance. What you think or believe of my "sudden" change of heart means nothing to me. I don't care if it pleases or displeases you. What I care about is the person I am and the person I want to be. Maybe the traumas I've suffered in life have taught me that sometimes I need to step back in order to deal with the issue differently before I end up going over the edge. I've survived because I am strong, and it often takes a strong person to be able to say "I was wrong."
No, you weren't "wrong". You were standing up for the laws and citizens of this country. I fail to see how that was ever wrong.
No, you weren't "wrong". You were standing up for the laws and citizens of this country. I fail to see how that was ever wrong.
And I still stand up for the laws and citizens of this country. They are my first concern. But, there are indeed some people who may have earned some consideration and I like to be fair.
And I still stand up for the laws and citizens of this country. They are my first concern. But, there are indeed some people who may have earned some consideration and I like to be fair.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. Exceptions shouldn't be made because it makes a mockery out of our immigration laws.
Does this post sound familiar to you? It was from a topic you started about how illegals have impacted our individual lives. This was your own reply to your own topic:
Raped at age 6 years old by an illegal from Mexico.
Stabbed in the stomach at age 14 by an illegal female, who WRONGLY thought I was looking at and flirting with her ugly-ass boyfriend, also an illegal. I was getting the best of her in a fist fight when she decided to gut-stab me. Even though I had a buck knife on me I never pulled it out and used it on her. I just pummeled her even harder. By the way, she ended up in worse shape than I did
Listed as a defendant in AZ in an auto accident lawsuit, caused by an illegal who purchased a car which was inoperable when I traded it in YEARS before the accident.
While in AZ my dog and her new born puppies were poisoned with anti-freeze by illegals. They were angry that my dog would alert me that they were poaching in the grapevines behind my house and I would chase them away at gunpoint. All of the puppies except one hemorrhaged from every orifice in their little bodies. The mama also survived but went crazy.
While working as an apartment manager in Van Nuys I was cornered and threatened by an illegal immigrant couple because I could not rent to them. They were quite open about the fact that they were illegal and they went on a tirade how unfair the rules were towards them. I also dealt with gang members on a regular basis, most of whom were illegal and many were with MS-13.
One of my former tenants in Van Nuys, CA, whose family have been here legally for four generations, was suspended from his bus driving / bus driver training job when his license came back with a warrant on it, in the state of Arizona, where he had NEVER been! I spent months helping him to straighten it out while he tried to not lose his apartment lease. Turns out an illegal from Mexico somehow got his details, had a fake AZ driver's license made with his own photo but my tenants details, and got into an auto accident after speeding and driving while drunk.
...Sudden change of heart? Those who know me well personally are aware of my propensity for self-evaluation, especially when I am becoming so engrossed in a belief that I can't think straight because of it. I have never had a problem with admitting when I have been wrong or too extreme over a belief or stance. What you think or believe of my "sudden" change of heart means nothing to me. I don't care if it pleases or displeases you. What I care about is the person I am and the person I want to be. Maybe the traumas I've suffered in life have taught me that sometimes I need to step back in order to deal with the issue differently before I end up going over the edge. I've survived because I am strong, and it often takes a strong person to be able to say "I was wrong."
Damn, I can't rep you again so soon after what I agreed with you on this topic before...
We'll have to agree to disagree then. Exceptions shouldn't be made because it makes a mockery out of our immigration laws.
Does this post sound familiar to you? It was from a topic you started about how illegals have impacted our individual lives. This was your own reply to your own topic:
Raped at age 6 years old by an illegal from Mexico.
Stabbed in the stomach at age 14 by an illegal female, who WRONGLY thought I was looking at and flirting with her ugly-ass boyfriend, also an illegal. I was getting the best of her in a fist fight when she decided to gut-stab me. Even though I had a buck knife on me I never pulled it out and used it on her. I just pummeled her even harder. By the way, she ended up in worse shape than I did
Listed as a defendant in AZ in an auto accident lawsuit, caused by an illegal who purchased a car which was inoperable when I traded it in YEARS before the accident.
While in AZ my dog and her new born puppies were poisoned with anti-freeze by illegals. They were angry that my dog would alert me that they were poaching in the grapevines behind my house and I would chase them away at gunpoint. All of the puppies except one hemorrhaged from every orifice in their little bodies. The mama also survived but went crazy.
While working as an apartment manager in Van Nuys I was cornered and threatened by an illegal immigrant couple because I could not rent to them. They were quite open about the fact that they were illegal and they went on a tirade how unfair the rules were towards them. I also dealt with gang members on a regular basis, most of whom were illegal and many were with MS-13.
One of my former tenants in Van Nuys, CA, whose family have been here legally for four generations, was suspended from his bus driving / bus driver training job when his license came back with a warrant on it, in the state of Arizona, where he had NEVER been! I spent months helping him to straighten it out while he tried to not lose his apartment lease. Turns out an illegal from Mexico somehow got his details, had a fake AZ driver's license made with his own photo but my tenants details, and got into an auto accident after speeding and driving while drunk.
Kind of hard for me to forget that I posted this, since I lived it. But these traumas from my early life cannot be allowed to forever color my view of everyone unfairly. The police and hospital reports of the damage done to me by my first husband read like a horror novel, but if I had allowed that trauma to color my view of ALL men I would not now be married to a wonderful man. Some women have been literally crippled emotionally and mentally by abuse, but I choose to not be crippled by it. Viewing all illegals in a hateful light only serves to cripple me as a human being. I do not even have to like them being here, but this does not mean that I have to treat them rudely, hatefully or unkindly. My grandfather was a cop in Bakersfield, and later worked at Tehachapi prison. My uncle was a cop in Florida and North Carolina. We are a family who believes in following the law. Am I really any different from, say, the mother of someone who has been found guilty of serial murder, yet as a mother she still loves and stands by her child, even though they have committed a terrible crime? Maybe not the best of analogies, but its the best I could think of right now. I do not love illegal immigrants, but I will not allow myself to hate them and if I have to live with them because the governemnt doesn't impose or enforce our laws, then I would rather live in peace and mutual understanding than in open hostility and unkindness.
In my opinion, the violent offenders, gang members, sex offenders, drug users/dealers and other criminals need to be removed first and foremost. As for the rest, like I've said before, a case-by-case basis.
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