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It is actually: A person born in the US is assumed to be a citizen.
So now you're saying that a person born in the U.S. *is* assumed to be a citizen. Why is that? Is it because, very specific exceptions aside, anyone born in the United States *is* a citizen?
Dude, give it a rest. You're gettin schooled in this thread.
Yep, just as I thought, you really, really have no lunar clue as to what you're talking about. None whatsoever!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas
The children of foreign sovereigns refers to children of people who are working in the capacity of official service of a foreign government. The very court ruling that you cite is the exact same court decision which, once and for all, states unequivocally that children born to foreigners who reside in the U.S. are U.S. citizens. And once citizenship is recognized, it cannot be so easily taken away. Even if it is later established that parents are here illegally, the rights of the child do not change.
To "reside" here one must have the "authorization of the Government" as Gray states: Chinese persons, born out of the United States, remaining subjects of the Emperor of China, and not having become citizens of the United States, are entitled to the protection of, and owe allegiance to, the United States so long as they are permitted by the United States to reside here, and are " subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the same sense as all other aliens residing in the United States.
To your earlier claim (comment #2):Moreover, illegal aliens, though they are technically in violation of the law, are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. If they weren't, then they would be immune from deportation proceedings. Your "subject to the jurisdiction" (incorrect phrase) in this sense means nothing more than being subject to civil and criminal law. The Schooner Exchange, as referred to by Gray, states there is an implied license that they assume once they enter which places them within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the US. This is why they are limited to the EPC of the 14th Amendment, and the 4th and 5th Amendments. Unlike an "immigrant" which falls under most of the US Constitution, with fewer limitations.
WKA makes 3 things required (must have all 3 to be NBC) in order to obtain BRC; 1) born here, 2) parents are permanent domicile and are residence here, 3) parents not here in official capacity of foreign power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas
And your notion about citizenship is completely false. It is so laughably false that it almost deserves no response at all, but just to enlighten you, more than half of the people in this country -- including the native born -- have absolutely no passport at all. Are you saying that the majority of American citizens are, thus, not officially recognized as citizens?! The irony of this nonsense you've posted above is that foreign born, naturalized Americans are more likely to get an American passport than Americans who were born here.
The majority are "assumed" citizens. All (citizens assumed/recognized) have been marginalized by our laws to be but mere residents (Federal government did this when it said the Citizens of the individual States are now citizens of these United States). Many could probably prove they are citizens simply by family documentation if they do not have a US Passport. Now, please explain how one is "officially recognized" as a citizen. (Here's a hint - US Passport)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas
Mate, do us a favor. Do your homework between now and the next time you spout off on a thread like this. You may be entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
Such brazen words. What "facts" are incorrect? SCOTUS has never ruled on "anchor babies", they are assumed to be citizens. That assumption comes from DoS FAM as interpreted by the Obama admin which he had changed in 2009. There are "exclusions and qualifications" to becoming a NBC. I'm still waiting for you to post your "cut and paste" links and "laws" you claim to be on your side.
Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 11-19-2011 at 05:36 PM..
So now you're saying that a person born in the U.S. *is* assumed to be a citizen. Why is that? Is it because, very specific exceptions aside, anyone born in the United States *is* a citizen?
Dude, give it a rest. You're gettin schooled in this thread.
Absolutely, demonstrably false. LMFAO
Please do "cut and paste " a bunch of links, enlighten us. (My "cut and paste" is directly form Justice Gray's ruling in WKA it is SCOTUS precedent)
What "law" exactly is on your side, please name it or link to it.
I suggest looking at your US BC, does it state your parents Nationality? How about Yours? (I'll answer for you - NO, it does not) A BC is nothing more than a document that begins an identity of/for a person, it does not establish a Nationality. A person is not deemed a US Citizen unless they have been granted a US Passport from the DoS.
Are you on some pills Passport is ony for travel abroad Citizenship
is decided by birth certificate or certificate of naturalization
By your reasoning only 30% of ppl born in US or naturalized
are US citizens as majority of population dont have passports
Do some research before posting in form Even a 10 yr old knows
how does one become a US citizen
US State Dept is not a federal entity to verify citizenship
Thats the job of CIS,formerly INS part of Homeland Security
that verifies naturalized citizens For ppl born in US birth certificate
verifies citizenship
Someone going through an inland Border Patrol checkpoint, without having been issued a U.S. passport:
"Are you a U.S. citizen?"
"Uhhhm, I'm not sure."
I'm sure glad the citizenship of my new Granddaughter is not being decided by such idiotic non-reasoning...
Yes, you're getting schooled...
Look who decided to jump into the frey....
We have gone over all this before.
A BC in nothing more than the beginning of an ID, you have agreed.
A DL is nothing but another form of ID, you have agreed.
All US Citizens are US Nationals, but not all US Nationals are US Citizens, you have agreed.
Now if you have been following along with the conversation, you would comprehend what the meaning of the phrase you picked means. All persons born here are assumed to be US Citizens, many can prove they are by family documentation (such would be the case of your granddaughter), others, as has been pointed out, by US Passport; but alas, you chose to enter this conversation with but the point of attempting to pile on to some imaginary mound of fudge.
Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 11-20-2011 at 09:24 AM..
Are you on some pills Passport is ony for travel abroad Citizenship
is decided by birth certificate or certificate of naturalization
By your reasoning only 30% of ppl born in US or naturalized
are US citizens as majority of population dont have passports
Do some research before posting in form Even a 10 yr old knows
how does one become a US citizen
I'll ask you to point out where on the birth certificate it states your nationality or that of your parents?
You are confusing the obtaining of a US Passport, which a Certified copy of the Birth Certificate is but a requirement.
By my reasoning, yes, 30-40% own US Passports, the remaining can actually show or prove citizenship status by family documentation, so what are you attempting to get at? (Try reading the entire comments from me, not just one)
Simply being born here is not proof enough to obtain US Citizenship.
US State Dept is not a federal entity to verify citizenship
Thats the job of CIS,formerly INS part of Homeland Security
that verifies naturalized citizens For ppl born in US birth certificate
verifies citizenship
The DoS has done nothing more then change the definition of Citizenship in the Foreign Affairs Manual to include "children born to illegal aliens". (It is the Progressive interpretation of US Code and of WKA - the definition was Changed in Aug 2009)
This is directly from USCIS: If you meet certain requirements, you may become a U.S. citizen either at birth or after birth. (Which is actually US Code).
One of the requirements is: Have been born in the United States or certain territories or outlying possessions of the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States;To be "Subject to" according to Gray in WKA (citing Calvin's Case) Two things usually concur to create citizenship: first, birth locally within the dominions of the sovereign, and secondly, birth within the protection and obedience, or, in other words, within the allegiance of the sovereign. This is to go along with the 3 things Gray makes required for natural born citizenship: 1) born here, 2) parents are permanent domicile and are residence here (with the authorization of our government), 3) parents not here in official capacity of foreign power.
Look who decided to jump into the frey....
We have gone over all this before.
A BC in nothing more than the beginning of an ID, you have agreed.
A DL is nothing but another form of ID, you have agreed.
All US Citizens are US Nationals, but not all US Nationals are US Citizens, you have agreed.
Now if you have been following along with the conversation, you would comprehend what the meaning of the phrase you picked means. All persons born here are assumed to be US Citizens, many can prove they are by family documentation (such would be the case of your granddaughter), others, as has been pointed out, by US Passport; but alas, you chose to enter this conversation with but the point of attempting to pile on to some imaginary mound of fudge.
I think the step-grandaughter he speaks of has a Mexican mother that wasn't born here. Naturalized citizens are not native born Americans. However, I have no qualms with the babies of naturalized citizens being given birthright citizenship.
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What "facts" are incorrect? SCOTUS has never ruled on "anchor babies", they are assumed to be citizens. That assumption comes from DoS FAM as interpreted by the Obama admin which he had changed in 2009. There are "exclusions and qualifications" to becoming a NBC. I'm still waiting for you to post your "cut and paste" links and "laws" you claim to be on your side. 
(My "cut and paste" is directly form Justice Gray's ruling in WKA it is SCOTUS precedent)
