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You are missing the point. English is a global language used for international communication. Like it or not Spanish is not. People in China are learning English not because they have to but because they want to. They know it will increase their chances of success. They are not learning Spanish. We Americans are being told to learn Spanish not increase our chances of success internationally but for one primary reason: to cater to lazy foreign invaders who have broken our laws and refused to learn our language.
Objection to that kind of arrogance is not bigotry no matter how much the Latino lobby likes to pretend otherwise.
The only xenophobia is that of illegals. They hold Americans in great contempt. They refuse to make any sort of accommodations to our nation even when they move here voluntarily. We are not human beings to them. We are contemptible beings who exist for one reason and one reason only: to do what we can to make their lives easier even when it makes our lives harder.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree then, sorry.
And i have no idea what "the hispanic lobby" is.
Im sorry if my comments come as harsh, i ve never meant to be harsh, just trying to UNDERSTAND but you were complainig about.
I shouldnt have called all of you bigots or xenophobes, maybe thats the case of some, but its unfair to call everyone that for having that opinion. People might have reasons to think that way that i dont know and i honestly dont think everyone is bigot.
About the people going to your country and not learning your langugae, i agree with the majority here: im against that. People that go to live to a new country should learn the language out of respect. Thats how i see it, so im against people speaking only spanish when living in USA.
English is American heritage. If you respect & love the country you do what you can to adjust learn the American heritage, customs, & traditions.
That says a lot.
Kinda agree about this. Even when i dont understand american patriotism at all, and its hard for me to understand a lot of the points american make when they are talking from their patriotic POV (wich, believe me, its very hard to understand from other much less patriotic-or not patriotic at all- cultures), i actually CAN understand this. I DO think that learning language and costumes is a sign of respect. And it must be hard for you to see that foriengers living there do not respect your country.
We do have a situation relatable to that here in Argentina. For example with asians (theres a HUGE asian community in buenos aires), and their supermarkets (most little suppermarkets are asians, and THOUSANDS of them in the city. In my block alone i have 5 of this, and this is normal). Very often (more so in the beggining, now i have to admit some are learning the language) they dont speak spanish AT ALL, and just know chinese and if you ask something theyll look at you with empty eyes. They also dont care about learning custom or traditions.
Never occured to me to be mad or annoyed about this, im actually used to the asian community being close and not caring enough, but, then again, im from an extremely unpatriotic country with no sense of a nation whatsoever, so i guess this is where this apathy come from-
For a country thats as proud as itself and its tradition and people like USA, i can see why this could be offensive.
No it isn't just a Mexican thing. It is just that since we have so many of them in this country both legally and illegally and many that are citizens of Mexican ancestry that it is a lot more noticable. Yes, humans can be rude and can have a lot of other negative traits but should we just accept that or call them on it?
Besides complaining about it, what are we going to do? The Feds are not interested in enforcing immigration law, that goes for both parties, because their corporate paymasters tell them they better not enforce the laws. For the ones born and raised here, you can't force them to speak English, that violates their 1st Amendment rights. So, what's the solution then? Oldglory, I'm in full agreement with you that it's annoying that everyone expects us to learn their language but we have to learn theirs, but besides adding an amendment to the Constitution that says only English may be spoken outside the home, and enforcing the immigration laws that no single politician wants to enforce and penalizing the employers so much they'll be forced into bankruptcy that pay the politicians' bribes every election cycle (sorry, I meant "campaign contributions"), what else is there to do? Most Americans have a NIMBY attitude when it comes to this.
Besides complaining about it, what are we going to do? The Feds are not interested in enforcing immigration law, that goes for both parties, because their corporate paymasters tell them they better not enforce the laws. For the ones born and raised here, you can't force them to speak English, that violates their 1st Amendment rights. So, what's the solution then? Oldglory, I'm in full agreement with you that it's annoying that everyone expects us to learn their language but we have to learn theirs, but besides adding an amendment to the Constitution that says only English may be spoken outside the home, and enforcing the immigration laws that no single politician wants to enforce and penalizing the employers so much they'll be forced into bankruptcy that pay the politicians' bribes every election cycle (sorry, I meant "campaign contributions"), what else is there to do? Most Americans have a NIMBY attitude when it comes to this.
Well for one thing we can diversify our legal immigrant numbers more. This is what happens when you have too many "immigrants" from one ethnic group. They tend to colonize rather than assimilate. The early immigrants came from Germany, England, Spain, Italy and all over the European continent who didn't share the same languages or cultures. Immigrants were encourged to assimilate to our adopted language of English. That isn't true today.
Stop catering to Spanish speaking illegal immigrants in their own language and they will get the message that they have to learn at least enough English to function in our society. This arrogant attitude of theirs that we are duty-bound to learn Spanish will stop. Stop making it so easy for them to NOT learn English. Stop using taxpayer money to print government forms in Spanish.
You're right we cannot stop anyone from speaking another language in this country but my point was that it shows that they don't truly want to assimilate to our language and I find that behavior to be rude and disrespectful. There is no solution if they refuse to understand that. It has been allowed to happen because our government allowed in too many from south of our border and didn't put a stop to illegal immigration from same.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree then, sorry.
And i have no idea what "the hispanic lobby" is.
Im sorry if my comments come as harsh, i ve never meant to be harsh, just trying to UNDERSTAND but you were complainig about.
I shouldnt have called all of you bigots or xenophobes, maybe thats the case of some, but its unfair to call everyone that for having that opinion. People might have reasons to think that way that i dont know and i honestly dont think everyone is bigot.
About the people going to your country and not learning your langugae, i agree with the majority here: im against that. People that go to live to a new country should learn the language out of respect. Thats how i see it, so im against people speaking only spanish when living in USA.
Thank you for your more civil tone today. You had no right to speak to me the way you did yesterday. As for the Hispanic lobby it consists of our Hispanic politicians and all those Hispanic advocacy groups that are demanding amnesty for illegal immigrants most of whom share their ethnicity.
Kinda agree about this. Even when i dont understand american patriotism at all, and its hard for me to understand a lot of the points american make when they are talking from their patriotic POV (wich, believe me, its very hard to understand from other much less patriotic-or not patriotic at all- cultures), i actually CAN understand this. I DO think that learning language and costumes is a sign of respect. And it must be hard for you to see that foriengers living there do not respect your country.
We do have a situation relatable to that here in Argentina. For example with asians (theres a HUGE asian community in buenos aires), and their supermarkets (most little suppermarkets are asians, and THOUSANDS of them in the city. In my block alone i have 5 of this, and this is normal). Very often (more so in the beggining, now i have to admit some are learning the language) they dont speak spanish AT ALL, and just know chinese and if you ask something theyll look at you with empty eyes. They also dont care about learning custom or traditions.
Never occured to me to be mad or annoyed about this, im actually used to the asian community being close and not caring enough, but, then again, im from an extremely unpatriotic country with no sense of a nation whatsoever, so i guess this is where this apathy come from-
For a country thats as proud as itself and its tradition and people like USA, i can see why this could be offensive.
Personally, it isn't an issue of patriotism. Rather, as others have said, it's an issue of respect. Although I would never choose to live in a foreign country without learning the language, I also understand the difficulties of mastering a foreign language. However, as long as the U.S. generously accommodates Hispanic foreigners in their native language, especially if said foreigners are living in the country illegally, it sends a resounding message that not only can they ignore our laws, but they can also ignore our language.
I don't care what language people speak in the privacy of their homes, or in public while engaged in private conversations. However, if they speak English and simply refuse to do so while in the presence of English-speaking citizens, IMO, that's rude. I will never forget the time I was entering an elevator and heard two women speaking French when the door opened. As soon as I entered, they immediately stopped speaking French and started speaking English. As respectful, classy ladies, they obviously didn't want to speak a language they assumed I did not know. They chose to engage me in conversation, and we had a pleasant elevator ride.
When I worked with a large Spanish-speaking staff who were also fluent in English, the complaint I often heard from English-speaking employees was they always thought they spoke Spanish while in their presence, such as while eating lunch in the Nurse's lounge, because they were talking about them and didn't want them to know what they were saying. Even if they weren't talking about them, it gave the impression they were. I addressed this issue through sensitivity training. Afterward, although most Spanish-speakers denied saying anything derogatory, the workshop helped them understand the feelings of the monolingual English-speaking staff. I was delighted to one day enter the lounge and witness some of the Spanish-speaking nurses teaching Spanish to the English-speakers. They were laughing and having fun, whereas previously, they were segregated. Language is a unifier, as well as a divider. Sadly, our country is now divided.
Pretty much. When I was in England, I heard a lot of Urdu and Polish being spoken by people that were legal immigrants. It's a universal human thing. Even the 1 million plus Brits that live in Spain speak English as much as they can, and always speak English amongst fellow Brits, even friends. So many of them have been living in Spain for a while, but still can't go past ¿Dónde está el baño? in conversation. So, it's not a Mexican thing, it's a human thing
No, that's a British thing. The British are even more monolingual than Americans are, if you can believe that. Many Spanish do not like the way British holidaymakers and retirees behave in their country, their refusal to learn the language being only one reason why.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree then, sorry.
And i have no idea what "the hispanic lobby" is.
Im sorry if my comments come as harsh, i ve never meant to be harsh, just trying to UNDERSTAND but you were complainig about.
I shouldnt have called all of you bigots or xenophobes, maybe thats the case of some, but its unfair to call everyone that for having that opinion. People might have reasons to think that way that i dont know and i honestly dont think everyone is bigot.
About the people going to your country and not learning your langugae, i agree with the majority here: im against that. People that go to live to a new country should learn the language out of respect. Thats how i see it, so im against people speaking only spanish when living in USA.
The hispanic lobby are racist groups like La Raza and their ilk. They want our immigration policies to be based on what is best for hispanics rather than what is good for Americans. If what is best for hispanics (i.e. importing millions of low skilled hispanics who don't speak English, take tax dollars and have no job skills in the middle of a recession) they expect non-hispanics to shrug, learn Spanish and do what is best for hispanics rather than stand up for their own self interest.
It is extremely frustrating. I happen to live in an American state that was hard hit by a hurricane a few months ago. And what is one of my senators focusing on? The needs of illegals! He's doing so for one reason and one reason only: because he, like most illegals, is hispanic. The only racism is his own.
Most Americans do not object to most illegals because they are mostly hispanic. We object to them because they have willfully broken our immigration laws, break other laws like employment and driving laws and often make no effort to assimilate to this country at all by learning English. They also make racially based demands. The only reason they want our immigration laws changed is to promote more immigration from the racial group even when that kind of immigration hurts Americans financially.
Personally, it isn't an issue of patriotism. Rather, as others have said, it's an issue of respect. Although I would never choose to live in a foreign country without learning the language, I also understand the difficulties of mastering a foreign language. However, as long as the U.S. generously accommodates Hispanic foreigners in their native language, especially if said foreigners are living in the country illegally, it sends a resounding message that not only can they ignore our laws, but they can also ignore our language.
I don't care what language people speak in the privacy of their homes, or in public while engaged in private conversations. However, if they speak English and simply refuse to do so while in the presence of English-speaking citizens, IMO, that's rude. I will never forget the time I was entering an elevator and heard two women speaking French when the door opened. As soon as I entered, they immediately stopped speaking French and started speaking English. As respectful, classy ladies, they obviously didn't want to speak a language they assumed I did not know. They chose to engage me in conversation, and we had a pleasant elevator ride.
When I worked with a large Spanish-speaking staff who were also fluent in English, the complaint I often heard from English-speaking employees was they always thought they spoke Spanish while in their presence, such as while eating lunch in the Nurse's lounge, because they were talking about them and didn't want them to know what they were saying. Even if they weren't talking about them, it gave the impression they were. I addressed this issue through sensitivity training. Afterward, although most Spanish-speakers denied saying anything derogatory, the workshop helped them understand the feelings of the monolingual English-speaking staff. I was delighted to one day enter the lounge and witness some of the Spanish-speaking nurses teaching Spanish to the English-speakers. They were laughing and having fun, whereas previously, they were segregated. Language is a unifier, as well as a divider. Sadly, our country is now divided.
So the solution was for the English speaking employees to be taught Spanish instead of insisting that the bi-lingual Spanish employees use the common language of English on the job? I disagree with that.
So the solution was for the English speaking employees to be taught Spanish instead of insisting that the bi-lingual Spanish employees use the common language of English on the job? I disagree with that.
No. The Spanish-speaking employees already knew English. They were trying to improve relations with the English-speaking employees by teaching them Spanish words. They were just having fun. It wasn't a requirement. In fact, English proficiency was one of the requirements for employment.
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, maybe thats the case of some, but its unfair to call everyone that for having that opinion. People might have reasons to think that way that i dont know and i honestly dont think everyone is bigot.
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